The Stephen Baker Interview Jan/2024

[Kurgan]

The expansions that were being planned had to do with the Dwarf & Wizard but as SB had left Hasbro in 1992, he wasn't further involved. The latest though is that he wrote more quests at the time of First Light than have been released. Whether those are cutting room floor material or we might see those in the future is unknown at this time.

Two years ago at GenCon Craig Van Ness (of HeroScape fame) was saying how it's typical for a designer who has been around long enough to have lots of unused concepts, drafts, and ideas on the shelf. He doesn't take it personally that for whatever reason (mostly based on financial considerations: budget, perceived commercial viability) they don't get used, but he keeps them around in case there is an opportunity to dust them off and implement them again in some form or fashion.

For all we know Baker's cutting room floor or discarded HeroQuest ideas will find their way into that new game he's working on (Where Heroes Dare). I'd love to see that!
Edit: the WHD page gives a 404 error... wonder what's up?

When Baker worked with Hasbro/Milton Bradley he had nothing to do with North American expansions. He put together the first and second European editions, Keller's Keep, Return of the Witch Lord and started fade from the projects when it came to Against the Ogre Horde & Wizard's of Morcar.
Baker had no part in the planned Wizard and Dwarf quest packs, nor did he touch on Frozen Horror or Mage of the Mirror. Baker was only originally involved in the European quests.

That is until recently with Prophecy of Telor and First Light. But there might be others.

NO disagreement there. However it's still also a fact that he and Mike Gray met to discuss HeroQuest at the start. But of course it was Gray's game after that in the US (all credit for their hard work, nearly everything is different in subtle ways), and there's no mention of Baker when it came to the '92 expansion drafts (they did draw from ATOH and WOM, but as you mentioned and I agree, he wasn't involved there, though Baker did have some advisory input into ATOH only... Gray's team was more about re-using art and miniatures and general concepts to save resources not necessarily any creative direction or storylines from those other packs which effectively they couldn't expect kids in the states to have known about), just as it was Takara's game (not sure the names of any of the designers there) in Japan. Stephen Baker is the OG, but he certainly didn't have direct input into everything, and he might not agree with how things were done, but he seems humble enough that he respects the work they did, and that includes when he's given a new opportunity and assignment with the Avalon Hill team today. So I try to always separate out in my mind what he intended back then vs. what he'd do now. I don't see him slipping up in interviews and calling them "Chaos Warriors," he's been a team player.

I'm just glad he's sharing what he does recall from the old days, and that he's still contributing how he can in the modern version. Given his talent and passion, I certainly wouldn't object to seeing more, if he's willing to make it! Something I'd really love to see is that HeroScape/HeroQuest Crossover idea we were teased with last year at GenCon (in a very subtle way). That would seem like a perfect opportunity for a reunion of Baker and Craig Van Ness to work on it.

yeah, the hero packs were made by another team in the US.
I'd be curious to answer if he has something to say about the master screen, why Mentor is pictured there, I've read somewhere there was a misunderstood by the artist (should be David Gallagher, if I am not wrong) but I've always thought he is Mentor seeing through the Loretome pages the forces of Chaos approching...

I'd love to hear some more about that myself!


PS: I really wish they'd make Rogar's Hall playable officially in the App. I hope they're not embarrassed about releasing that. Maybe one day we'll see it appear once again...

[wallydubbs]

A little over 6 months ago I got to meet Stephen Baker to playtest his new game "Where Heroes Dare." I honestly didn't think it was the best title. But just the same, in our interaction I got his E mail. It's been a while since I've written him with a list of 13 questions, so I pretty much gave up hope about him writing back, but I'm happy to be wrong. Baker has finally gotten back to me. I'll go over those questions and answers here. Unfortunately it wasn't a personal interview where I can ask follow up questions, but this can hopefully give some insight:

Question 1.) When Milton Bradley first released HeroQuest back in 1989 there was a commercial aired on TV; in said commercial a boy played the Spell Card "Fire of Wrath." Someone at the in Inn went so far as to freeze-frame the card played on the commercial. I'm not going to read it verbatim, but it basically describes the Card's effect as destroying a piece of furniture, which actually does well to explain the picture on the card. The question, therefore, is if this was one of the potential effects of "Fire of Wrath" during the playtest stage.

Baker's Answer.) Yes, some effects impacted furniture. However, we've found as spells are limited, players preferred something that would affect a character. Allowing furniture to be destroyed opened potential issues for quest writing.

Question 2a.) The affects of Heroic Brew allow a hero to make 2 attacks, as Orc's Bane allows a hero to make 2 attacks against Orcs. The question is if the two attacks were meant to be made against the same monster, or could they possibly be split between 2 monsters both adjacent to a hero?
Question 2b.)In these occasions when a hero attacks the same monster twice, is the monster allowed to defend twice?
Question 2c.) These questions arise due to Hasbro rereleasing the game with monsters and heroes with this ability. Hasbro has made official rulings on this, but some Inn members disagree and your opinion holds weight...

Baker's Answer.) I would say you can make 2 attacks as a single action. This may be against a single monster or against two different monsters you are eligible to attack. I would not allow 2 attacks to be separated by a move.
If you had Heroic Brew AND Orc's Bane you can use one action to attack a monster, if it is an Orc you get a 2nd attack, either against the same orc or a different Orc you are eligible to attack. You may then use the 2nd attack granted by Heroic Brew. In effect you will get 3 attacks so long as two of them are against Orcs.
For me, personally, I think monsters AND heroes should always get to defend against any attack.

Question 3.) Most people at the Inn have come to understand that Borin's Armor is plate mail that doesn't slow down the hero wearing it. However the illustration on the card leave some scratching their heads as this lovely piece of armor depicts a helmet as well. Was this an error on the part of the illustrators?

Baker's Answer.) I am not sure it is a mistake. It would be clearer if the illustration only showed the armor. I think the idea behind the art was to show a panoply of armor.

Question 4.) When Hasbro invited you back to make a new quest pack for the Kickstarter remake, you wrote Prophecy of Telor. Was this just the only Quest Pack you wrote, or were there others that Hasbro has chosen to sit on?

Baker's Answer.) I have written 3 quest books. Prophecy of Telor, the new quests in First Light, and one other that has yet to be released.

Question 5.) Prince Magnus is the Emperor's son in Hero Quest and at no point is the Emperor named. Is this the same Prince Magnus from Warhammer Lore?

Baker's Answer.) Yes, though there is no real tie-in to the Warhammer narrative. When HeroQuest was launched the idea was to provide an experience that felt part of a larger narrative. I based a lot of this off the world I created for running my own RPG campaigns. For example, one of the key villains was Morcar. Games Workshop was keen to reference some of their own creatures, place names and characters. Hence we included a Fimir in the original game and Prince Magnus, the original quest was called Prince Ragnar's Gold. When this was changed to Prince Magnus, I changed the name of the character in the rescue quest from Sir Roland to Sir Ragnar, why? Because Ragnar was the name of my D&D character!

Question 6.) The Inn understands that the original HeroQuest takes place in the Warhammer World, could you pinpoint where in the Warhammer Timeframe HeroQuest takes place?

Baker's Answer.) It only takes place superficially in the Warhammer World. There was no meaningful attempt to place HeroQuest into the Warhammer Lore.

Question 7.) The setting of the Quest Pack "Return of the Witch Lord," is said to take place in the city of Kalos (Stated by Mentor in the Introduction). Kalos is not known in the Warhammer World, yet on the initial release of Return of the Witch Lord, part of the Warhammer map is depicted on the retail box. Perplexingly, though, Kalos is nowhere to be found on this map. Was Kalos meant to go on this map but never made it or was the name subbed out for some other city?

Baker's Answer.) This again ties into the points above. The inclusion of the Warhammer World was something Games Workshop, though there was no real tie-in to the narrative of Warhammer. Kalos, is Greek for beautiful, a city that was once majestic but now fallen, having been destroyed by Morcar. The fallen city of Kalos is a location I had in my RGP campaign.

Question 8.) Why was there no closing epilogue to Against the Ogre Hoard or Wizard's of Morcar?

Baker's Answer.) I am unsure. I did write one. I always write an epilogue, even in my own RPG games, as it creates an anticipation for what comes next. It is always a great way to let the players know they have not achieved any final victory; the forces of Morcar are never truly defeated. Unfortunately, I do not have my original notes to Against the Ogre Hoard, so that particular epilogue is lost to time.

Question 9.) Could you explain your involvement with Wizard's of Morcar? Most members of the Inn agree that the new Wizard spells included in that expansion aren't up to par with the original Elemental Spells. Is this due to lack of play testing or were you not as heavily involved in this expansion?

Baker's Answer.) At the time Wizards of Morcar was written, there were other designers working on the game. I do not recall if there were concerns during playtesting. However, the reality is that playtesting in those days was less comprehensive than it is today.

Question 10.) Could you explain the reasoning behind variable Body Points in the original Against the Ogre Hoard?

Baker's Answer.) It was intended to make tracking body points easier and to allow for strong defense without making the Ogres too strong.

Question 11.) At the end of Advanced HeroQuest (aka Dark Company), the Ring of Brilliance is awarded to the heroes, but there's no mention as to what abilities it might grant the heroes...

Baker's Answer.) I wrote the Dark Company after I left Hasbro. I had asked for an additional card, but this was not possible. I seem to recollect there was talk about including a Ring of Brilliance in a future expansion. I know there have been a lot of Homebrew suggestions; and my view is that every Zargon should determine what works best for their player group.

Question 12.) One of the most iconic features of the original Game System is the Witch Lord's immunity to spells and weapons. Only the Spirit Blade can harm him. The Spirit Blade also grants an extra attack dice against the Undead, but many at the Inn are unsure if the Witch Lord counts as Undead. Only the Spirit Blade can harm him, yes, but is the Witch Lord Undead?
Baker's Answer.) A good question, and one that should have been better specified. The Witch Lord is undead and the extra attack dice should be applied.

Question 13.) Was there an inspiration from Tolkien in regards to Keller's Keep? Many players have noticed similarities to some quests in Keller's Keep and the Mines of Moria in Lord of the Rings, such as Balin's Tomb with The Halls of Dwarven Kings, or the Balrog to the Guardian of Grin's Crag?

Baker's Answer.) I have always been a huge Tolkien fan. Keller's Keep certainly has elements inspired by the Mines of Moria, though it still has its own narrative, a race to rescue the besieged.

[HispaZargon]

Awesome interview. I think I should try to re-post it in an indepedent thread like others.

Really interesting to see that SB remembers to had written epilogues for WoM and AtOH, however he had only lost AtOH one... would it mean we will finally see the original epilogue for WoM in its HQ21 version? Would it mean that such 3rd quest book written by SB for Hasbro in this new era actually is the revised version of WoM? Who knows...

Thanks a lot, wallydubbs.

P.D.: About the new game going go be designed by Stephen Baker, I posted some news here

[wallydubbs]

My follow E mail to Stephen Baker:

Dear Stephen:

Thank you so much for getting back to me, I'll admit that I had actually lost hope of hearing back from you, I've never been so pleased to have been proven wrong. You're a man of your word and I appreciate it.

My apologies for adding a few follow up questions: but you said you had indeed written an Epilogue to Against the Ogre Hoard and Wizards of Morcar, but I noticed you only mentioned Ogre Hoard's epilogue being lost to time. 1.) Did you mean to include Wizards of Morcar as well or are you just holding that for the remake?
Many Inn members are eagerly anticipating and hoping that Wizard's of Morcar will be remade. Perhaps your original ending will be included there.

2.) You've mentioned a 3rd Quest Pack you've written for Hasbro, are you able to disclose the title of this expansion? I understand if there's an NDA and you can't. Do you know if they actually plan on releasing this other expansion?

I'm sorry for all the questions reflecting off of Warhammer. It's very interesting that so many names were included from your own RPG, such as Ragnar and Kalos.

3.) But now that you've stated Ragnar was your character, I'm curious, did you have any misgivings on turning Ragnar evil at the end of Return of the Witch Lord? This turning point of Ragnar was not carried over into the North American edition, but it seems the remake caught wind of this and incorporated Ragnar as a villain in Rise of the Dread Moon.
4.) Were you aware that Ragnar would be used as a villain in Rise of the Dread Moon as you've included him in First Light's storyline? In First Light Ragnar seems opposed to Mentor. I imagine this, in part, foreshadows his Turn Cloak.

I also wanted to add appreciation for First Light, as it is not just an alternate starting storyline for the heroes, but that it coincided with the Game System, as if it's played by another group. 5.) Was this part of the idea, that perhaps Mentor would be training a 2nd group of heroes?

God Bless,
Michael

His Reply:

Hi Michael,

Thank you for being so understanding, and I do not blame you for having lost hope.


I have answered your questions below.


I also meant to include the following comments you may like to share with the folks on Ye Olde Inn.



As you can appreciate, I originally designed HeroQuest 37 years ago, in 1988. Growing up, I always tinkered with games, whether they were tabletop wargames or board games. It was always my hope that players would embrace HeroQuest and make it their own. This is why I was insistent that there be a blank quest map so players could photocopy and design their own adventures. In Europe, as you know, we even launched the Dungeon Design Kit. HeroQuest was designed before the age of the Euro-Game, and at the time, the game design and development process was not as sophisticated as it is today. The playtesting I did at local schools was uncommon, but it taught me that simplicity, above all, was key to making the game a success. I always expected that players who wanted more would add their own rules. This has always been a factor in hobby games.

I am often expected to be an expert on all things HeroQuest. However, the fact is I do not play the game much these days, and I honestly am not as well-versed in all that has been written. My opinions are my own, and I do not assume to rule on debates that players may have. I encourage all players to enjoy the game, make it their own, and hopefully use this simple adventure system to bring more people into the hobby and inspire another generation of Zargons, Morcars, and Dungeon Masters.

For those who wish to, they can touch base with me on Reddit, where my profile name is Stephen-Baker. I occasionally visit the HeroQuest, Battle Masters, and Space Crusade channels to comment on posts.

Kindest regards

Stephen





(My question) Did you mean to include Wizards of Morcar as well or are you just holding that for the remake?

Many Inn members are eagerly anticipating and hoping that Wizard's of Morcar will be remade. Perhaps your original ending will be included there.

(Baker's Reply) The same applied to Wizards of Morcar; again, I do not have a copy of that epilogue, and I doubt any of my records from that time survive at Hasbro. I would expect Hasbro to add some epilogue, as they did for Ogre Horde.





(My question)You've mentioned a 3rd Quest Pack you've written for Hasbro, are you able to disclose the title of this expansion? I understand if there's an NDA and you can't. Do you know if they actually plan on releasing this other expansion?

(Baker's Reply) I cannot name the Quest Pack that has yet to be released. My understanding is it is due later this year, but I cannot be certain.





I'm sorry for all the questions reflecting off of Warhammer. It's very interesting that so many names were included from your own RPG, such as Ragnar and Kalos.

(Baker's Responce)No worries, it is widely assumed there was much more direct collaboration and purposeful world-building between Hasbro and Games Workshop when the game was released.



(My question)But now that you've stated Ragnar was your character, I'm curious, did you have any misgivings on turning Ragnar evil at the end of Return of the Witch Lord?

This turning point of Ragnar was not carried over into the North American edition, but it seems the remake caught wind of this and incorporated Ragnar as a villain in Rise of the Dread Moon.

(Baker's Answer) I had no misgivings. My character was a flawed paladin who struggled to always live up to his code. That’s what happens when you adventure with rogues and riff-raff.





(My question)Were you aware that Ragnar would be used as a villain in Rise of the Dread Moon as you've included him in First Light's storyline?

In First Light Ragnar seems opposed to Mentor. I imagine this, in part, foreshadows his Turn Cloak.

(Baker's Answer) Yes, I knew he had been used as a villain in Rise of the Dread Moon. Maintaining perfect continuity between all the Quests presents some challenges. However, the characters remain true to who they are. Sir Ragnar is always a bit of an enigma. Only time will tell if deep down his heart is true or given to a darker purpose.



I also wanted to add appreciation for First Light, as it is not just an alternate starting storyline for the heroes, but that it coincided with the Game System, as if it's played by another group.

(My question) Was this part of the idea, that perhaps Mentor would be training a 2nd group of heroes?

(Baker's answer) In my mind, Mentor was always out there raising new heroes to thwart Zargon/Morcar’s many schemes. Hence his name. He was based on a character in my RPG campaign who was called Erdain, the Lore Keeper.