Need some help

[wallydubbs]

It all depends on whether the Elf and the Barbarian are brand new Heroes. If they are, then they are going to die in the solo quests.
I know that these expansions state that they are intended for new Heroes, but if played by a solo Barbarian or Elf that has completed the preceding packs and are therefore tooled up, then the solo bit is perfectly survivable.

Considering that this is a Compendium of official quests, but not a pure copy of all the material in the packs (Hendar has included the story introductions but not the new rules for each pack), then I would just suggest that the "new elf" or "new barbarian" rules are completely ignored. In the compendium the US packs come immediately after Wizards of Morcar, so why not just use the Elf and Barbarian that emerged from that adventure?

If I absolutely had to play FH and MOTM with brand new Heroes, i.e. if Morcar held a gun to my head, I think I would prefer to use the Wallydubs approach of extra potions and rewards, rather than adding in mercenaries and extra Heroes. It is supposed to be a solo adventure after all.

Ah, yes, I see your point, Pancho. But I've playtested Frozen Horror before, with only 4 heroes and with 5. So long as the heroes are carry Healing potions they can keep on kicking. Assuming you allow the heroes to visit the Alchemist Shop between quests, adding a 5th hero does add an extra share to limit the gold to keep buying those potions.
As noted in the Forward, he's also playing with Sjeng's equipment and Evil Wizard cards... this might make the quest even more difficult. So clearly there's already a few modifications added. But I guess it's up to Morcar to make that decision, if he's willing to let a 5th hero join. The adjustments I made are to secure survival (at least by 64%) for unequipped female Barbarian. Just as the original 14 quests are meant to max out the heroes, so 3 solos will do for 1.
Just the same, the solo quests are still broken. If he wishes to take some of my or Anderas' ideas, it would be an honor.

Another suggestion I'd like to make is in regards to Keller's Keep, Return of the Witch Lord, the group quests of the Frozen Horror, and the last 4(or 3) quests of Mage of the Mirror: just as Against the Ogre Horde doesn't allow heroes to visit the Armory/Alchemist Shop between quests, the same should apply to these quest packs, as they are all technically connected in the greater part of the story. So at the end of every quest pack the heroes get a reward, which they'll have to put towards supplies for the next quest pack... this may mean adding a reward to Return of the Witch Lord and Wizards of Morcar.

[Pancho]

Another suggestion I'd like to make is in regards to Keller's Keep, Return of the Witch Lord, the group quests of the Frozen Horror, and the last 4(or 3) quests of Mage of the Mirror: just as Against the Ogre Horde doesn't allow heroes to visit the Armory/Alchemist Shop between quests, the same should apply to these quest packs, as they are all technically connected in the greater part of the story. So at the end of every quest pack the heroes get a reward, which they'll have to put towards supplies for the next quest pack... this may mean adding a reward to Return of the Witch Lord and Wizards of Morcar.

I completely agree with all this.

[Pancho]

Ah, yes, I see your point, Pancho. But I've playtested Frozen Horror before, with only 4 heroes and with 5. So long as the heroes are carry Healing potions they can keep on kicking. Assuming you allow the heroes to visit the Alchemist Shop between quests, adding a 5th hero does add an extra share to limit the gold to keep buying those potions.
As noted in the Forward, he's also playing with Sjeng's equipment and Evil Wizard cards... this might make the quest even more difficult. So clearly there's already a few modifications added. But I guess it's up to Morcar to make that decision, if he's willing to let a 5th hero join. The adjustments I made are to secure survival (at least by 64%) for unequipped female Barbarian. Just as the original 14 quests are meant to max out the heroes, so 3 solos will do for 1.
Just the same, the solo quests are still broken. If he wishes to take some of my or Anderas' ideas, it would be an honor.

I'm not necessarily against adding a 5th Hero to the group quests. Heck, if I had another person who was keen to play I certainly wouldn't turn them away from the table. I probably wasn't clear earlier, but its adding extra help to the solo quests that I'm not so keen on. I'm a big fan of the Heroquest stories as much as anything else, and the Messages from Mentor are fairly clear that the solo quests are intended to be a test of skill and strength for a Hero on his or her own. Personally I would do it that way as that is what makes those quests unique.

I completely missed the bit in the forward about Evil Wizard cards. I play with these too, and they are great. It seems like Hendar isn't going for a purists approach here, and is happy to make changes to improve the game. As I've found, the only question then is where and when to stop....

[Hendar23]

Hey Hender, I'd like to be of some help when it comes to the Barbarian and Elf quest packs. Anderas and myself have both put up suggestions on how to fix the broken solo quests of the Barbarian quest pack. He prefers the approach to adding mercenaries, I insert various potions and add rewards. Feel free to message me about it or check out some of these for Frozen Horror:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4452
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4474
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2977
For Mage of the Mirror:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4420
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4421

Yeah there is a lot there I need to go through!

It all depends on whether the Elf and the Barbarian are brand new Heroes. If they are, then they are going to die in the solo quests.
I know that these expansions state that they are intended for new Heroes, but if played by a solo Barbarian or Elf that has completed the preceding packs and are therefore tooled up, then the solo bit is perfectly survivable.

Considering that this is a Compendium of official quests, but not a pure copy of all the material in the packs (Hendar has included the story introductions but not the new rules for each pack), then I would just suggest that the "new elf" or "new barbarian" rules are completely ignored. In the compendium the US packs come immediately after Wizards of Morcar, so why not just use the Elf and Barbarian that emerged from that adventure?

I would imagine playing them with heroes who have gone through all the previous material, and I do intend to add the rules for each campaign. I'm only going to add the rules that are specific to each campaing (the stuff about using the steel door instead of the spiral staircase has just becomes part of the basic rules now)

Hendar, I had another thought on this.
Did you consciously decide not to include the other official & semi-official quests in your Compendium, like the Halls of Durrag Dol and the Eyes of Chaos?

I know it would be a lot of extra work for you, but it might be nice to have these interspersed in between the expansions.

They are absolutley getting added, just not done yet

Another suggestion I'd like to make is in regards to Keller's Keep, Return of the Witch Lord, the group quests of the Frozen Horror, and the last 4(or 3) quests of Mage of the Mirror: just as Against the Ogre Horde doesn't allow heroes to visit the Armory/Alchemist Shop between quests, the same should apply to these quest packs, as they are all technically connected in the greater part of the story. So at the end of every quest pack the heroes get a reward, which they'll have to put towards supplies for the next quest pack... this may mean adding a reward to Return of the Witch Lord and Wizards of Morcar.

I've though about this a lot, the KK, RoTWL and AtOH quests decribe the players on a continous journey, it makes no sense that they can even buy potions between quests. The alters the game a lot though. In the end I think it is down to the players and how chanllenging they want it.

I completely missed the bit in the forward about Evil Wizard cards. I play with these too, and they are great. It seems like Hendar isn't going for a purists approach here, and is happy to make changes to improve the game. As I've found, the only question then is where and when to stop....

This made me think about what 'pure' means to me. Sometimes a change or addition to a game comes along that is so good and so in keeping with the feel of the original that it completely replaces the out-of-the-box version to become the new default way of playing. Most of Sjeng's cards I put in this category. To compare to the world of videogames, the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Complete mod is how the game should be played the first time. It's the new pure version of that game to me. Brutal DooM just IS DooM 2 now.
I humbly want my quest book to be what people point to as how you should experience Heroquest for the first time in 2019. (Which means I will have to include the rules too damnit!!)

It also just bugs me that there a different versions of even the official stuff!

[wallydubbs]

I'm not necessarily against adding a 5th Hero to the group quests. Heck, if I had another person who was keen to play I certainly wouldn't turn them away from the table. I probably wasn't clear earlier, but its adding extra help to the solo quests that I'm not so keen on. I'm a big fan of the Heroquest stories as much as anything else, and the Messages from Mentor are fairly clear that the solo quests are intended to be a test of skill and strength for a Hero on his or her own. Personally I would do it that way as that is what makes those quests unique.

I completely missed the bit in the forward about Evil Wizard cards. I play with these too, and they are great. It seems like Hendar isn't going for a purists approach here, and is happy to make changes to improve the game. As I've found, the only question then is where and when to stop....

Oh, I agree. I'm trying to keep the solo quests solo too. An experienced, fully equipped Barbarian could get through it (so long as he has Healing potions) , if not for that damn Yeti hug. A simple enough fix for that is the made-up Dagger rule.
If you're in the Yeti hug, you're too close to swing a sword, but if you could reach that dagger, stab away.
An adjustment to the Yeti hug is that it only does 1BP of damage if unbroken, and the hero can try to break out if he has a dagger. The Yeti can't defend while hugging a hero, but once it takes damage it should drop the hero, I don't see why it would maintain a constant hug while being attacked or feeling pain from it.

As far as where to stop with the adjustments, it's when it throws the game off balance and/or ruins the mechanic. The Yeti hug is a rule that MUST be altered because it ruins the mechanic. We can blame that on the lack of playtesting. Adding a 5th hero doesn't throw the Balance off Frozen Horror because the balance was off to begin with, it makes it more even. If you played it with 4 heroes you'd know. I'm not saying it's impossible with 4 heroes, but the difficulty is so high in this one it just drones the game down. 5 heroes encourages the heroes to split up so they could uncover more of the board and finish before it starts getting boring. That's the main problem Dark Company has... you can't finish it in 1 sitting without it getting boring.
Another helpful adjustment to FH and MotM is that the Wizard would need a 4th set of spells for these quests or he'd have nothing to do towards the end.

Something else that needs to be considered for Frozen Horror, much like Keller's Keep and Return of the Witch Lord, where all the quests are connected... if they can't stop at the Armory or Alchemist Shop, how will they get mercenaries?
Either they can somehow convert Dark Warriors that they encounter to their cause, or they could somehow come across a Mystic Portal Scroll. Sjeng made some Chaos Spell Artifact cards as well, which I think would be nice touch since his equipment and Evil Wizard deck are being used... just a thought.

[wallydubbs]

Hender, by the way. I only read through the first 20 pages so far, 4 things:
1.) You made a typo in the Table of Contents, you have Fortress of the Ogre Lord labeled as 4.7, should be 4.6.
2.) Although you addressed why you left The Trial out in the Forward, have you considered the idea that I think Lestodante put forward in another forum, that the Trial be moved to a later quest in the first quest book, but it can maintain the same name, as this will be the Heroes trial to becoming Champions?

3.) Also, in Castle of Mystery, you're missing the number for door 11.
4.) Barrok Tor - Burrow of the Witch Lord, you're missing the Southern most door to the 3x5 room by the Gargoyle.

[lestodante]

font for the notes is also wrong, it should be "Aldine721"

[wallydubbs]

So I finished reading through the first quest pack and I like a lot of the changes you made, such as the introduction to Melar's Maze as well as the additional body points to the bosses, and all the added monsters to the final battle with the Witch Lord.

Aside from the few errors noted in my previous post, everything else seemed in accordance with the quest book.
I do have a question about Quest 4, however: there's a note at the bottom specifying Gulthor is an unpredictable follower of Tzeentch... who or what is that?

There's also 2 slight continuity errors (not yours) that you could fix:
1.) At the end of quest 14 you leave the note that all surviving heroes are awarded the title of "Champion" by the Emperor. The error here is that the Emperor is already out leading his forces against Morcar and then retreating to Karak Varn... he doesn't have the time to bestow such an honor onto the heroes. The whole point of going after the Witch Lord is to prevent an attack from the rear.
This is why, again, I'd suggest adding the Trial somewhere in the middle, possibly between Quests 7 and 8 (as there are 14 quests, right in the middle sounds right). It IS an official quest, and it would make more sense why the Emperor would send his Champions out to defeat Balur and have them retrieve the Star of the West.

2.) There may be a continuity error in the Epilogue, when it's revealed that the Witch Lord is still alive, itcsays he retreated to Black Fire Mountain... as this is one of the very few regions noted in Hero Quest (I believe this is also where the heroes fought and killed Balur). Yet in Return of the Witch Lord, the setting is moved to Kalos. So unless Kalos is a fallen city under Black Fire Mountain, there seems to be an error.

[Hendar23]

Hender, by the way. I only read through the first 20 pages so far, 4 things:
1.) You made a typo in the Table of Contents, you have Fortress of the Ogre Lord labeled as 4.7, should be 4.6.
2.) Although you addressed why you left The Trial out in the Forward, have you considered the idea that I think Lestodante put forward in another forum, that the Trial be moved to a later quest in the first quest book, but it can maintain the same name, as this will be the Heroes trial to becoming Champions?

3.) Also, in Castle of Mystery, you're missing the number for door 11.
4.) Barrok Tor - Burrow of the Witch Lord, you're missing the Southern most door to the 3x5 room by the Gargoyle.

Thanks this exaclty the kind of mistakes I need spotted!

[Hendar23]

font for the notes is also wrong, it should be "Aldine721"

Thanks I'll look into it. I've had some problem with embedding fonts in the docx file. It's not displaying them when I open the file in dropbox so it looks like crap there. Won't be a problem for pdf releases but still.