• Advertisement

Make a small donation to Ye Olde Inn!

Donate via Paypal

Every cent received goes toward Ye Olde Inn's maintenance and allows us to continue providing the best resources for HeroQuest and Fantasy Gaming fans.

Mercenaries for Solo Play

Discuss general topics relating to HeroQuest that don't fit well in the categories below.

Re: Mercenaries for Solo Play

Postby Anderas » March 4th, 2019, 3:36 pm

Pancho wrote:
Anderas wrote:The normal mercenaries pack more punch per BP than the Heroes. So you don't need all 12 to replace a hero group, somewhere between 4 and 6 would be good. Having the complete set is useful as each has his specialty. Letting the scout search for traps is invaluable, for example; letting the swordsman fight is good but the Helbardier has a longer range... and so on.

They pack more punch but die very easily, and can't be healed efficiently. Having 4-6 will serve for the middling quests but will result in frequent TPK's in the later quests and expansions. Just a single room of orcs will have a chance to kill off your henchmen, and a fight versus chaos warriors or a Gargoyle will not be pretty.


Yes, of course one stays flexible and adapts. In an ideal world, all mercs die each quest and the Hero walks away with 2-3 BP left, plus enough gold to buy new mercs. The real world is not like that. |_P


Rewards:
Hosted a Play-by-Post game. Played a turn in a Play-by-Post game. Created a Hot Topic. Participated in four (4) Miniature Exchanges. Participated in three (3) Miniature Exchanges. Zealot Miniatures: Twisting Catacombs Kickstarter Backer Destroyed a Zombie! Encountered a menacing Chaos Warlock!
User avatar
Anderas
NOT Andreas!

Polar Warbear
Polar Warbear
 
Posts: 3397
Images: 73
Joined: September 20th, 2014, 7:02 am
Forum Language: British English
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar
Usergroups:
Wizards of Zargon Group Member Adventurers' Guild Group Member Artists Group Member Champion Group Member

Advertisement

Make a small donation to Ye Olde Inn!

Donate via Paypal

Every cent received goes toward Ye Olde Inn's maintenance and allows us to continue providing the best resources for HeroQuest and Fantasy Gaming fans.

Re: Mercenaries for Solo Play

Postby lestodante » March 4th, 2019, 5:25 pm

if you use 12 mercenaries consider that the monsters will suffer 13 attacks at once and then the surviving monsters (if any) can play their turn.
Also all the mercenaries defend with 3 or 5 dice, the heroes (standard) with 2 and the swordman fighting skill is way better than a standard Barbarian.
So, considering you are playing the game-system, I guess a team of 4 or 5 mercenaries plus one Hero is enough.
Oh and if you need, increase body points up to a maximum of 4 for each mercenary.

Note: european version of the mercenaries are weaker, they only have 1 BP instead of 2 and the Crossbowman attack with 2 dice instead of 3 (he probably owns a cheaper crossbow or is still learning the skill to use it)


Rewards:
Wizard of Zargon Group Member Participated in four (4) Miniature Exchanges. Participated in four (4) Miniature Exchanges. Participated in a Miniature Exchange. Wrote an article for the Blog. Encountered a menacing Chaos Warlock!
User avatar
lestodante

Yeti
Yeti
 
Posts: 2840
Images: 5
Joined: January 7th, 2017, 9:40 am
Location: Italy
Forum Language: English (United States)
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar
Usergroups:
Wizards of Zargon Group MemberScribes Group MemberChampion Group Member

Re: Mercenaries for Solo Play

Postby Count Mohawk » March 4th, 2019, 5:43 pm

It is also important to remember that in a normal party of 4 Heroes, the Elf and the Wizard collectively have 2 healing spells between them.
This means that in order to TPK a party of Heroes, the EWP has to chew through 8+7+6+4 (base Body Points) +4 (Heal Body) +4 (Water of Healing) = 33 Body Points.
By contrast, a party of 1 Hero plus 4 Mercenaries will have 2x4 (Mercenaries) + 4-to-8 (Hero) = 12 to 16 BP, plus 1-2 heal spells if the Hero is an Elf or Wizard for an absolute max of 20.

Effectively, A party of 1 Hero + 4 Mercs has roughly half as much staying power as a party of 4 Heroes, even if the Mercs have better equipment. Probably 5 or 6 Mercs would be necessary for some of the tougher Quests, although I have not yet mathed or Questimated any of this out.


Rewards:
Grin's Stone Map Created a Hot Topic. Shattered a Skeleton! Destroyed a Zombie! Crushed a powerful Chaos Warrior! Smashed a massive Gargoyle!
User avatar
Marquis of Math
Count Mohawk

Elven Warrior
Elven Warrior
 
Posts: 696
Joined: July 11th, 2013, 5:18 pm
Location: New England, USA
Forum Language: English (United States)
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon
Usergroups:
Champion Group Member

Re: Mercenaries for Solo Play

Postby Jafazo » March 5th, 2019, 1:35 am

Count_Monte wrote:Thanks for the quick replies. It sounds like 4-6 could work for a while, then a different solution will be needed once the quests get harder. Maybe being able to buy armor (BP)between quests for the mercs would solve it?


This really just depends on Zargon. No amount of stat analysis matters. 6 Mercs aren't the equivalent of a group of 4 Heroes. Not even 8 Mercs can beat out 4 Heroes. Their low BP makes it so they can't handle the fluctuating health. After one or two attacks, they're gone. If Firestorm hits hard, they all die in one shot. If you insist on making it work, your best bet is going to be to simply not target the mercs too much and warn your player that the enemies will realize that she's the bigger threat so she should be ready to handle most of the damage. I'd be generous in slipping in a few extra potions of defense and healing she may find, but not too many offensive potions like heroic brew or potion of strength. She's going to be limited to searching for treasure once per room since mercs can't do that, so her treasure gain will effectively be cut by 75% considering a normal group of Heroes all searching pull more treasure. Increase gold rewards she might find as well to compensate so she can pay for the mercs and buy the extra things she may need. I might even just flavor the plan by having Mentor give her some kind of special amulet that goads enemies to concentrate on her mostly. You can still target her Mercs but be careful about it. Maybe even rule that her mercs can use anything from her inventory, like a shared pool, so if her Merc is attacked she can drink a potion of defense to improve his chances to survive and such. Potions of defense will be a big big help, she should have a few handy.
Unless you specify your version I'm going by the US rules.
User avatar
Jafazo

Ogre Champion
Ogre Champion
 
Posts: 199
Joined: September 1st, 2014, 3:52 pm
Forum Language: English (United States)
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon
Usergroups:
Artists Group Member Champion Group Member

Re: Mercenaries for Solo Play

Postby Pancho » March 5th, 2019, 2:49 am

Jafazo wrote:
Count_Monte wrote:Thanks for the quick replies. It sounds like 4-6 could work for a while, then a different solution will be needed once the quests get harder. Maybe being able to buy armor (BP)between quests for the mercs would solve it?


This really just depends on Zargon. No amount of stat analysis matters. 6 Mercs aren't the equivalent of a group of 4 Heroes. Not even 8 Mercs can beat out 4 Heroes. Their low BP makes it so they can't handle the fluctuating health. After one or two attacks, they're gone. If Firestorm hits hard, they all die in one shot. If you insist on making it work, your best bet is going to be to simply not target the mercs too much and warn your player that the enemies will realize that she's the bigger threat so she should be ready to handle most of the damage. I'd be generous in slipping in a few extra potions of defense and healing she may find, but not too many offensive potions like heroic brew or potion of strength. She's going to be limited to searching for treasure once per room since mercs can't do that, so her treasure gain will effectively be cut by 75% considering a normal group of Heroes all searching pull more treasure. Increase gold rewards she might find as well to compensate so she can pay for the mercs and buy the extra things she may need. I might even just flavor the plan by having Mentor give her some kind of special amulet that goads enemies to concentrate on her mostly. You can still target her Mercs but be careful about it. Maybe even rule that her mercs can use anything from her inventory, like a shared pool, so if her Merc is attacked she can drink a potion of defense to improve his chances to survive and such. Potions of defense will be a big big help, she should have a few handy.

This is my view too. Stats and central planning won't tell the whole story, so just allow the Hero to hire what he needs as the quests get more difficult. 5 or 6 mercs will work in some quests but will also lead to total party kills far more often than when playing with the four Heroes.
The OP has already said that he doesn't want to increase the body points of the mercs, and Morcar "playing soft" is not an ideal solution either (I think Heroquest plays better when both sides are trying to win).
This is why I say allow the solo Hero to hire all the mercs if and when he can afford them and wants them - not just give them to him, but just allow the player to make his own choices. Restricting the number with a rule won't be very helpful.

by the way it is unlikely that even with 12 mercs that the monsters will suffer 13 attacks per turn. Not enough space. Unless the warband simultaneously branches out all over the dungeon, and games like that are usually really great anyway.


Rewards:
Participated in three (3) Miniature Exchanges.
User avatar
Pancho
Rock Skin Achieved

Halberdier
Halberdier
 
Posts: 1277
Joined: April 12th, 2017, 10:43 am
Forum Language: British English
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar
Usergroups:
Scribes Group MemberAdventurers' Guild Group MemberChampion Group Member

Re: Mercenaries for Solo Play

Postby Anderas » March 5th, 2019, 8:32 am

This really just depends on Zargon. No amount of stat analysis matters. 6 Mercs aren't the equivalent of a group of 4 Heroes.


As I love statistics, of course I disagree here. :p

We talk about beginner heroes, in the beginning.

4 beginner heroes have 3 fighter beginners. Their stats are in the US system

AT DE
3 1
2 1
2 1
1 1

Basically, they have two weak attacks, one medium attack and the wizard as supporter.

Now we compare with a mercmix:

Name, AT, DE
scout, 2, 2
cbman, 3, 3
helbard, 3, 3
sword, 4, 5

plus one hero. Five attacks, before Zargon may touch a monster (except for removing of course).

You see, the mercs are a lot stronger in the beginning. Yes, 4 mercs + 1 Hero are a good match for a group of 4 beginner heroes. If you are intelligent you take the Elf as Hero, so you even have one of the healing spells plus some bonus.

Until here, I did not employ statistics. :-) Just opinion. :lol:

Later the game, I have seen Firestorm as one of your examples, it is not at all the same.
If you take the firestorm example literally, you'd need a Hero able to cast "dispell" as counter; that's Wizards of Zargon level of difficulty.

There, a Hero-Group has (for example)

AT DE
4 5
4 5
4 5
3 4
assuming borin's armour and spirit blade for the wizard.

This group needs of course a lot more mercenaries to replace them. I didn't calculate it right now, but that can be interesting. I will do that, probably!


Rewards:
Hosted a Play-by-Post game. Played a turn in a Play-by-Post game. Created a Hot Topic. Participated in four (4) Miniature Exchanges. Participated in three (3) Miniature Exchanges. Zealot Miniatures: Twisting Catacombs Kickstarter Backer Destroyed a Zombie! Encountered a menacing Chaos Warlock!
User avatar
Anderas
NOT Andreas!

Polar Warbear
Polar Warbear
 
Posts: 3397
Images: 73
Joined: September 20th, 2014, 7:02 am
Forum Language: British English
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar
Usergroups:
Wizards of Zargon Group Member Adventurers' Guild Group Member Artists Group Member Champion Group Member

Re: Mercenaries for Solo Play

Postby Count Mohawk » March 5th, 2019, 11:23 am

This thread reminded me that there are a handful of Inn-goers who have made "higher-tier" mercenaries, with stats such that they don't fold over and die to a stiff breeze the way the regular ones do sometimes.

Phoenix had a set of "Master Mercenaries": if you hired a Merc and he survived 5 quests, he would then promote to a Master, giving him +1 to Move, Body and Mind Points.
Slev's Hero Quest Revised had an alternative 5th mercenary, the "Sergeant", who had 3 Body and 3 Mind, as well as an extra ability allowing another Merc to take an additional turn after his own.
Anderas has a few Mercs among his collection with 3 Body as well.

There are probably others, but I haven't looked yet...


Rewards:
Grin's Stone Map Created a Hot Topic. Shattered a Skeleton! Destroyed a Zombie! Crushed a powerful Chaos Warrior! Smashed a massive Gargoyle!
User avatar
Marquis of Math
Count Mohawk

Elven Warrior
Elven Warrior
 
Posts: 696
Joined: July 11th, 2013, 5:18 pm
Location: New England, USA
Forum Language: English (United States)
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Zargon
Usergroups:
Champion Group Member

Re: Mercenaries for Solo Play

Postby Maurice76 » March 5th, 2019, 12:28 pm

Anderas wrote:4 beginner heroes have 3 fighter beginners. Their stats are in the US system

AT DE
3 1
2 1
2 1
1 1


Actually, base defense on all 4 Heroes is 2, not 1. Even in the US rules :P.


Rewards:
Grin's Stone Map Slain a measly Goblin! Killed a mighty Fimir! Shattered a Skeleton! Destroyed a Zombie! Unravelled a Mummy! Smashed a massive Gargoyle!
User avatar
Maurice76

High Mage
High Mage
 
Posts: 408
Joined: March 9th, 2018, 1:19 pm
Forum Language: British English
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar
Usergroups:
Champion Group Member

Re: Mercenaries for Solo Play

Postby Count_Monte » March 5th, 2019, 12:37 pm

So if the consensus is that early on 1 Hero + 4 Mercs will work for beginner quests, and later on the Mercs will need to be "higher-tier", then perhaps a variant on what Phoenix and Slev did would work: When the Hero finishes the first 5 Quests and gets to Champion level, he earns the ability to purchase armor for his Mercs. He therefore has to choose whether to spend his gold upgrading himself or his Mercs. But at least this way he can raise their BP.

IF that works, then how would you handle the equipment from a dead Merc? Can the Hero salvage it and give it to a new Merc after the quest? These solo rules are assuming the Hero doesn't have to hire the Mercs, just pay for their upgrades once he's a Champion. Or maybe the cost of hiring new ones can be minimal. The idea is not to penalize the player for having to use Mercs, so all treasure shouldn't have to be spent on paying them.
Count_Monte
 
Posts: 6
Joined: March 3rd, 2019, 6:09 pm
Forum Language: English (United States)
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar

Re: Mercenaries for Solo Play

Postby Anderas » March 5th, 2019, 12:43 pm

Maurice76 wrote:
Anderas wrote:4 beginner heroes have 3 fighter beginners. Their stats are in the US system

AT DE
3 1
2 1
2 1
1 1


Actually, base defense on all 4 Heroes is 2, not 1. Even in the US rules :P.


why did I write one? :shock:


Rewards:
Hosted a Play-by-Post game. Played a turn in a Play-by-Post game. Created a Hot Topic. Participated in four (4) Miniature Exchanges. Participated in three (3) Miniature Exchanges. Zealot Miniatures: Twisting Catacombs Kickstarter Backer Destroyed a Zombie! Encountered a menacing Chaos Warlock!
User avatar
Anderas
NOT Andreas!

Polar Warbear
Polar Warbear
 
Posts: 3397
Images: 73
Joined: September 20th, 2014, 7:02 am
Forum Language: British English
Hero:
Evil Sorcerer: Morcar
Usergroups:
Wizards of Zargon Group Member Adventurers' Guild Group Member Artists Group Member Champion Group Member

PreviousNext

Return to General HeroQuest Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Facebook [Bot] and 2 guests