Ye Olde Inn

by **Oblivionlord** » August 2nd, 2017, 3:29 pm

Was wondering if anyone uses a modifier to the max distance for line of sight? Some quests have the hero spanning the entire corridoor where a monster or what have u are present at the far end. In this particular situation lets say the hero has a crossbow or uses a spell then do you allow them to accuratly fire the entire distance or do u set a max square amount? I personally was looking at a max of 6 or 8 squares. Id like to see your inputs.

I've never limited it that way.

If you do, you may want to consider a higher limit than 6-8. Remember a max movement roll is 12, it feels anti-thematic to make line-of-sight less than what you could run.

While I agree that it feels to far to see all the way to the end of a dark corridor, I've never limited it due to difficulty in managing an ever changing line of sight when considering possible placement of other Heroes. I can see some fun tactical decisions when....let's say, a Dwarf see's an Orc in the corner from his vantage (Orc Placed), so the Wizard on the perpendicular hall now knows it's there, but can't 'see' it. He has to decide whether to close to range or not.

However, for me, on the balance, it brings up the need to create more "in-game explanations" for contradictory events (I psychically know that my dwarf friend is over in that hallway and that he can see an Orc), than it solves. When I add things into the game I try to do so in a way that adds something new, mechanically, but doesn't require a new logic cascade to explain. While unlimited LoS may seem out of place on it's own, the replacement may make more things that are out of place than just accepting the original rule.

Just my badly worded 2 cents.

by **cynthialee** » August 2nd, 2017, 4:42 pm

I can see LOS limitation for thrown weapons but not spells and crossbows. Sure if it was an outdoor campaign I could see it but not in a dungeon setting.

by **knightkrawler** » August 2nd, 2017, 11:24 pm

cynthialee wrote:I can see LOS limitation for thrown weapons but not spells and crossbows. Sure if it was an outdoor campaign I could see it but not in a dungeon setting.

IF you want to complicate RAW by a limitation, I agree with cynthialee.
But I don't see the point for the reasons clmckay lists.
I'll add that in a one square wide hallway I'll set up ALL monsters until LOS would end at a wall at once, not just the next one from the exploring hero.

Then again, the original question wasn't so much about LOS itself, but a range on weapons.
No. Makes no sense. Let a hero throw a spear 25 squares. He loses it and has to buy a new one. All these pieces of equipment have their niche of value and it's one of the more finely weighted aspects of the game.

by **mitchiemasha** » August 3rd, 2017, 6:27 am

cynthialee wrote:I can see LOS limitation for thrown weapons but not spells and crossbows.

Yeah... only limit we have is on 'Thrown'. It's linked to Body points with 'Lost weapons are found if the area it was used in is searched'. Otherwise no one ever buys the things. For spear, it could have a 2x modifier but i don't think it matters that much, too rare a moment.

by **Daedalus** » December 13th, 2017, 1:38 pm

I have yet to implement a house rule, but my nod to realism is to set a short range of 2-6 for thrown weapons and 2-12 for missile weapons. Anything farther than that is long range, which requires re-rolling any hits. I also allow thrown weapons to be retrieved to offset this disadvantage, but rolling a black shield to attack damages the weapon.

by **mitchiemasha** » December 13th, 2017, 4:59 pm

Daedalus wrote:I have yet to implement a house rule, but my nod to realism is to set a short range of 2-6 for thrown weapons and 2-12 for missile weapons. Anything farther than that is long range, which requires re-rolling any hits. I also allow thrown weapons to be retrieved to offset this disadvantage, but rolling a black shield to attack damages the weapon.

Yes... I was always toying over if thrown should be limited to Body or 2x body. I couldn't decide because possibly it should be both, this would fit your idea. Not sure about including the reroll, might be adding too much. Good idea for a skill, character trait.

I second retrieving weapons. "Lost weapons are found if the area it was used in is searched". Now we're not breaking the original rule as they're still lost... Until one searches. This makes them more of a 1 shot/room, as a room needs to be cleared before searching, preventing reuse. It also takes up 1 search, slowing down the team, dangerous in my mods. Thrown weapons are hardly bought because they're lost.

I second damage "Discard an equipped bought weapon when rolling Black Shields equal to its base value, +1 are 3". I like the idea of 1BS for thrown but don't want to add in too many variables.

by **knightkrawler** » December 13th, 2017, 5:35 pm

Daedalus wrote:I have yet to implement a house rule, but my nod to realism is to set a short range of 2-6 for thrown weapons and 2-12 for missile weapons. Anything farther than that is long range, which requires re-rolling any hits. I also allow thrown weapons to be retrieved to offset this disadvantage, but rolling a black shield to attack damages the weapon.

You would have to make these weapons a lot cheaper.

by **Daedalus** » December 13th, 2017, 6:45 pm

I also wonder if re-rolling is too much of a nerf, but ranged combat is a big player advantage. It needs playtesting to see if it's fun, or simply an over-correction.

I didn't mention it, but I'm also down with requiring a search for retrieval for most of the same reasons you mention. A bit less dangerous for my game, though.

I can't recall my pricing at the moment, but I actually doubled the dagger to 50 gold coins without considering the range nerf. So maybe cheapening/returning to 25 gold coins is in order if the range rule works out. Yes, my other thrown weapon would similarly need a dip in price.

by **torilen** » December 13th, 2017, 9:07 pm

If you were going to implement a max distance, I would say it should easily be 15-20 spaces....maybe more.
Think...typically, in rpg's, 1 space = 5ft. And someone can throw a knife probably 20-25ft accurately...and
shoot a bow several dozen feet accurately.

The thing to remember, if you implement a max distance, you will have to keep in mind the lay of the terrain.
What rocks and trees might be blocking the line of sight, and where do they block it? Inside a dungeon...maybe
stalactites and stalagmites might block LOS. Rocks? Cavern corners?

You will have to pay attention to light source and how far the light shines, as well.

In short - implementing a LOS max distance will require you to pay more attention to other items of play, if you
want to make it "real" and keep things fair.