Unreleased Dwarf and Wizard Packs - Toco investigates

[sadkitchen]

After the quest mentioned above happened, it was decided that multiple wandering monsters would attack separate heroes. (Still dangerous, and the other players got upset at you if you were the unlucky Hero who kept drawing wandering monsters, but it's better than killing off a Hero when he searches.) Sort of funny that I never considered just not putting 2 of the CWs on the board. Sometimes I question my common sense.

-SadKitchen

[Daedalus]

Placing 2 Chaos Warriors would have helped, to be sure. After checking the Barbarian Quest Pack, I discovered the most Chaos Warriors called for by a Quest was 2. It also calls for 2 War Bears; that seems more overpowered.

For poorly-playtested Quests, try the Against the Ogre Horde or Wizards of Morcar expansions. They both use 3 Chaos Warriors for Wandering Monsters. Both the Barbarian and Elf Quest Packs are later improvements on their predecessors.

I'd be willing to run the Quests as is. Clever players could tactically reduce their vulnerability by placing a treaure-searching Wizard behind other Heroes, so that Chaos Warriors or other Wandering Monsters couldn't be placed adjacent. That would cancel their immediate attack, only allowing attacks on Zargon's turn. If the Wizard was 2nd or 3rd in the turn order, then the Wandering Monsters could well be eliminated before they get a chance to strike.

This works best with experienced groups, not new players. I think players don't want a cake walk, so go with the published Wandering Monster count if they know the game. If the players are somehow newly introduced, then cut 'em a break and reduce the number, as mentioned by drathe.

[drathe]

Keep in mind that the Ogre Horde and Wizards of Morcar 3 Chaos Warriors would have 1BP each. Making them easier to go down.

[Daedalus]

True dat- good point. In the original iteration they're more like Chaos Henchmen.
I haven't yet played the Elf or Barbarian Quest Packs, so you and Sadkitchen know more about it than I. Still hoping 2 Chaos Warriors can be countered by savy players, though. Kinda like putting two Heroes on watch while the others loot the place. Might take 3 on watch to get the job done right.

[Daedalus]

@Deadalus: For a Maul with a 4 combat dice attack I would suggest 400 gold and not useable by Elf or Wizard (2 hands, obviously) I would suggest making it a 5 combat dice attack, 600 Gold (maybe higher gold cost)and still no Elf or Wizard. But my opinion is that if a maul/war-hammer was included in the quest pack (and not just the cover art) it would be a Dwarf only Artifact and therefore wouldn't have to worry about balancing/differentiating from regular armory weapons.

-SadKitchen

Good ideas- I like that both the Elf and Wizard are prohibitted from using it. The Artifact idea is a good way to fold it in with less fuss. I'd go with this Artifact card:

Foe Hammer

This magical Maul has a heavy,
adamantine head. When using
it, roll 4 combat dice to attack,
or 5 combat dice if attacking an
Ogre. May not be used by the
Elf or Wizard.

I think it could also be included as a home-brew Armory item:

Maul
550 Gold Coins
Weapon

This stone warhammer gives you the attack
strength of 3 combat dice. It gives 5 combat
dice against larger-than-man-sized monsters,
which are less able to avoid it's heavy blows.
You may not use a shield when using this
weapon. May not be used by the Elf or

. . . Wizard.

I purposely didn't put a shield prohibition in the Foe Hammer Artifact card, as it's magical nature allows it to be weilded 1-handed. Perhaps the Maul bought in the Armory could also be wielded with a shield. Note that the concept art has both the Dwarf and Barbarian wielding thier weapons with two hands, yet a Broadsword may be wielded with a shield. Though I prefer the no-shield approach, here's an alternative Armory item:

Warhammer
550 Gold Coins
Weapon

This stone warhammer gives you the attack
strength of 3 combat dice. It gives 4 combat
dice against larger-than-man-sized monsters,
which are less able to avoid it's heavy blows.
May not be used by the Elf or the Wizard.

I went with a 550 gold coin price tag to fit the +100 gold coin bump per improvement of the Armory.

[sadkitchen]

I like the larger-than-man-sized monsters bettern than limiting it to just ogers, but like the ogers for simplisity. Especialy as new sets keep getting released (which you would assume they though would happen). Plus, you could argue that giant wolves are larger-than-man-sized monstes as well and I doubt that they would have a problem dodging a Maul.

-SadKitchen

[el_flesh]

Mauls can be moved with great speed - it depends on the wielder. The right sized weapon for the right sized body. It's TV that gives the illusion of huge rear-ups and gigantic slow dramatic swings.
I've seen larger guys use larger weapons just as effectively as smaller guys with smaller versions. Size does matter - but big doesn't necessarily mean slow!

[Daedalus]

Sadkitchen-
I wouldn't argue that a Giant Wolf is a large monster, but emphatically agree. It appears about as big as a horse. I thought something as heavy as a horse would move slower and present a bigger target for the large maul. Just opinion and fluff, really. I wanted the Maul to affect more monsters to add to it's desirability, and I wanted a weapon to keep up with large, high Body Point monsters. A Giant Wolf has 5 Body Points, practically putting it on par with the Heroes. It's weakness is its rather low 3 defend dice, however. To match your idea, the wording would need to include larger-than-mansized humanoid monsters. To match Dwarf flavor, they could be called Giantkind.

One problem I have with my weapon design is a Hero could take a Battle Axe, as well. Then he could roll 4 or 5 attack dice all the time. The 1000-gold-coin combined cost of the 2 weapons balances things at the start, but after a while cost isn't an issue. I think a Zargon player would need to enforce some other restrictions, such as the heavy-weapon limit or equipping rules we discussed before in the Plate Armor and Equipping threads.

Elf Flesh-
Thanks for the info. I'll edit the wording a bit to take out the emphasis on slow. The Barbarian would definitely qualify as a bigger guy. The Dwarf's Body Points and stocky stature match the blocky weapon as well, I think. They both could swing it effectively (read quickly). The restrictions placed on the Elf and Wizard are supported by what you say, so I think Sadkitchen had that part right.

[sadkitchen]

Must remember that TV shows and Computer Games are not reality. Board Games are!

On an unrelated note: My Giant Wolves would have higher defense (because wolves dodge stuff) but less BP and less Attack Dice.
On a note much closer to the topic: Why is there a need for searching the Dwarf and Wizard quest packs out? Why is there any secrecy at all? I guess I don't understand why a company is keeping secrets about a game they stopped caring about over 10 years ago. But what Taco has found out about it is very cool and I wait eagerly for any and all information he discovers.

-SadKitchen

[chaoticprime]

I find it interesting that the alternate Dwarf is also male. If a 90lb female Elf can throw down just as well as a male Elf, I honestly do not see any reason why a slightly less hirsute female Dwarf could not, also.