Ye Olde Inn

by **Kagekaze** » January 29th, 2016, 2:37 am

So I've been running an ongoing campaign with a new group of players in HeroQuest. It's been great fun and was quite challenging for the heroes at the start. The problem is that the heroes are now crafty to the game's mechanics and usually only unique monsters challenge them. It's been made worse by now as we're half way through Return of the Witch Lord. Kellar's Keep and some of the RotWL monsters have proven to stumbling blocks, thus keeping the fun and challenge, but the undead nature of the RotWL expack means they mow through regular monsters very fast (after all, skeletons are not much more threatening than a goblin). It all comes down to averages. 2 attack die monsters vs 5 defense die heroes.

I've 'cheated' in a few instances to try and make things more interesting, but sometimes I get push back from the Heroes when I do something, so it's been kind of rough finding ways to keep the game challenging and engaging. I don't want to outright kill them, the most fun we've had is when they barely escape. It's especially true since I record the whole thing for YouTube, I want it to be interesting to watch as well. In the end I want to be fair, and to be honest I don't want to get too far into advanced custom rules because I've never gone through the whole thing before despite owning the game and the packs for years now. I think things will improve as we get into the Ogre Horde and even the elf/barb quest packs, they seem to really bring on the tough regular monsters. I'm hoping it's just a case of RotWL not bringing enough hardy monsters to the fore.

So with all that huge exposition out of the way, I'm going to list my current house rules and see what you guys think and if you have suggestions that won't change or break the game too much.

NOTE: If you'd like to see how the current rules are being played out, or to see how my 'heroes' have been playing the game, the playlist is here with the most recent quest being The Cold Halls. We are actually on quest 6 of RotWL, so the videos are a bit behind.

Treasure Searches for rooms containing Chests
Typically you can search for treasure anywhere in a room. However, I noticed some chests have traps nearby that wouldn't get triggered with this being the case. Therefore I put in a rule that treasure searches when a room has a chest, must be conducted NEXT to the chest in question to help preserve nearby traps.

Pits and searches
Players cannot search a pit as if it was a unique room (directly opposition to the written rules). I do not allow a player to search for traps while in a pit, however I do allow a treasure search for the room the pit is in. This is to allow chests to be searched even if surrounded by triggered pits. If they get a wondering monster, all the better.

Pits and LOS
Players in a pit do not disrupt LOS. The rules allow for attacking out of a pit at a penalty of 1 die for attack and defense, this is preserved, but spells cannot be cast due to not being able to properly 'see' from in the pit. To keep things fair, monsters cannot perform LOS actions into the pit either.

Weapon holding restriction
Normally a hero can carry any amount of equipment, but I have created a 2 primary weapon rule. A hero can carry two of the same primary weapon if they so desire

Swapping weapons
The standard rules seem to allow players to use any weapon at any time. This seems to remove any strategy when using a crossbow as it can be countered by just carrying a broadsword. With the primary weapon restriction in play, I also put in a weapon swapping mechanic. A player may spend an action to swap to another weapon at any time in a dungeon. This means it's also easier to keep track of a player who can no longer use a shield due to now using a BattleAxe.

Trading
Originally I made it so that players could only trade potions in a dungeon, I allowed this to anyone in LOS (this clearly was a broken system). Later I found the trading rules included in the barb/elf character expansion packs. Now I allow adjacent trading as a non-action and also allow equipment trading. As per the rule book, this cannot occur if a monster is adjacent to either player, this helps prevent potion swapping in clutch moments.

So now things I'm considering..

Potion Use
The rules are pretty explicit that a potion can restore you from the brink of death. Not using a potion until you hit 0 body points really helps since you NEVER have to waste that potion. This seems to be a major issue with me killing heroes, often I have to 'break' their potions first before I can do anything else. I'm considering removing this base rule and making the heroes use their potions in advance. I think allowing them to be used any time EXCEPT during a killing blow may still be a fair rule. This is one I've debated on as the current run seems easy, but the heroes may need those potions in the harder packs like Ogre Horde.

Continual quests
So with Ogre Horde on the horizon for my group, I like the idea of doing the adventure series variant, where they can't rest or shop between missions. The rules allow for 5 'potions' that restore full body points when used for this mode. Even if I do the above rule, I think these 5 potions are more 'lives' than potions, so I don't think I'd apply the above potion rule to this special feature of Ogre Horde. That said, I then have to consider the act of trading said potions. Since they are "full bp" resotrals, letting a wizard trade his to a barbarian seems somewhat broken. I think the 5 potions should stick as a 'life' counter and make the heroes think strategically about their resources.

I think that's everything, I'll update if I think of anything more.. This is the first I've really put my thoughts to paper on how the quest has been going so I apologize if this seems disjointed or hard to follow. I look forward to any feedback or suggestions you guys might have. Thanks.

I do various things based on the power of the Heroes:
1) In quests that are clearly continuous I certainly don't allow any shopping or hiring in between, and I may also not allow any recovery of BP/MP's.
2) In the past I have added monsters, traps, spells etc. as you have done, but I do this prior to the quest, not as it is ongoing.
3) With no time penalties, it is easy for the heroes to get set up nicely prior to entering rooms and searching for treasure. I have recently introduced Evil Wizard cards into my games, and they have been a great success. They are drawn on a time basis rather than when there are no monsters around. The more heroes and henchmen in the party the quicker the cards are drawn. It creates a realist sense of urgency and can even encourage a large powerful party to split up. Something that my brother would never consider normally. Because of these cards, I have had to spend allot less time altering the quests to make them harder.

I want to create a situation where the heroes will probably survive, but they and I feel that some, or all, could die. It is a difficult balance to strike, but when it works it is highly enjoyable for all.

by **Goblin-King** » January 29th, 2016, 8:11 am

I find this to be a reasonable set of house rules.

#1 about chests is very similar to what we do. The only way to make chests make sense. Stand next to it and declare you open it.

by **mitchiemasha** » January 29th, 2016, 10:37 am

I'll give you a feed for feed, lol a term we hear more in the music production world.

Treasure searches: How about searching for treasure in a room featuring a trap, triggers the trap, place Hero on the trapped square. I'm all for the next to for the chests. That's standard for us so not on my 2 page, i'll have to include it.

Pit searches: I still like the idea of been able to find some old corpses, died in there, Gold coins. I don't think we play search pits though! We do on the forum ran game but I can't remember the last time some one did it in flesh. Is it in the EU rules?

Weapon Holding/Swapping etc: Sacrifice one rolled Md6 to give, change inventory to hand. I've linked more bonus actions to the sacrifice mechanic. Making it become the entire action can slow the game down too much.

Potion use: I'd say they have to drink the potion before the dice roll. if they hit 0BP another Hero has 1 turn to reach them but the dieing Hero can't save them selves. Keeps the mechanic Once was Mortimer points out.

but the undead nature of the RotWL expack means they mow through regular monsters very fast

Not if you play the 'finished off' mod. Gold Bearer and I recently discussed it. I've play tested it a few times, it works well, It can be hard at times but fun.

Undead Special: The curse on this tomb is strong. The Undead are easily reanimated and must be 'finished off'.

When reduced to 0BP, lay the monster down in its square. Downed monsters don't ‘block’ (LoS or movement) but movement can’t be ended on. The EWP rolls 1CD for each downed before activating.

Skull = Reanimated, can’t move or attack this turn.
White Shield = Nothing happens.
Black Shield = Reanimated, can move and attack this turn.
Reanimated = Stand the monster up, it now has 1BP

To ‘finish off’ a downed monster, move onto its square and spend your attack action.

Please chime in on my 2 page download featured here. http://forum.yeoldeinn.com/viewtopic.php?f=143&t=3281.

by **The Admiral** » January 29th, 2016, 11:44 am

Goblin-King wrote:I find this to be a reasonable set of house rules.

#1 about chests is very similar to what we do. The only way to make chests make sense. Stand next to it and declare you open it.

Yep, That's what I do.

by **Saiyaforthelight** » February 1st, 2016, 1:36 pm

I've always found that a hero being able to drink a potion as a monster guts them, a little off. Doesn't feel like you'd have the time/stamina if you're sliced up. I include a rule where any player who reaches zero Body points is incapacitated and must miss a turn. During that turn, if a player reaches them with a potion (or if the incapacitated player ha on on them the other player can use) or a spell is cast, they are healed the four points.

by **knightkrawler** » February 1st, 2016, 4:55 pm

The Admiral wrote:
Goblin-King wrote:I find this to be a reasonable set of house rules.

#1 about chests is very similar to what we do. The only way to make chests make sense. Stand next to it and declare you open it.

Yep, That's what I do.

Yeah, me too. Search for treasure in any piece of furniture can only be done from an adjacent square, including diagonal ones.

by **Kagekaze** » February 1st, 2016, 5:53 pm

Thanks for the feedback and suggestions.

I'm trying to limit meddling with the base rules too much to keep it authentic (plus it feels bad to make huge sweeping changes in the middle of a campaign) but I think some things might work was a go-between.

I think I understand why the potion rule is the way it is, since the wizard is so squishy he really on has that as a crutch. The rolling boulder trap in Kellar's Keep for instance has the potential to kill him in one round. I do like the idea that they have 1 'round' to get a potion to that character to same them though. I think I'll run it across the guys because that potion rule about drinking 'at time of death' really does kill a lot of fear of dying anytime one is carried. I have a character that runs around constantly by himself, while it sometimes speeds up the dungeons, he's able to just really bypass any major monster hazards because he knows he has the magical parachute as it were. Maybe this will curb his enthusiasm.

I'm going to look at the undead rule a bit more.. it might help, but we're already half way through RotWL so I might just let it slide as the next major campaigns look to be much harder.
I think I might still allow the 5 potions given for the continual campaign of Ogre Horde to be used on death and treat them as lives, but as such they'll be non-tradable. That seems like a reasonable compromise as long as it's only for them.

It's been interesting reading, there's certainly more house rules out there than I might have expected.

by **Decipher** » February 1st, 2016, 6:49 pm

The part about pits and LOS is awesome, never really had that situation come up about throwing an weapon or casting a spell through a player who is in a pit. As far as the taking a potion before dying, I always play how the rules are written in the rule book first then the card second. House rules are always good, nothing wrong with them at all, I have a few myself, but I've always been a strong advocate of playing HQ exactly how it was originally written.