3. HQ25 - Choose your monsters + stats

[MrBigB]

For what it's worth I too am a big fan of the 3 cultist minimum to cast. What if for the general cultists there was a predetermined list of chaos spell which was determined by number of cultists involved in the casting?
Something like (my personal preferences in bold)
3 cultists = [basic spell, tempest or sleep]
4 cultists = [medium level spell, ball of flame or lighting bolt?]
5+ cultists = [nasty spell, summon undead or orcs]

If we used fairly generic chaos spells (regardless of level) that would help differentiate them from the special factions in the later chapter.


Also, I assumed (but never thought to ask) a spell used by cultists counts toward all participating cultists turn right? Sorry if that's a dumb question .

[Gold Bearer]

Do you mean do all of the cultists (or at least three) lose their attacks? Yes, that's one one of the recent changes Count Mohawk made. Before it was if there's three of them then one of them can cast one spell, four then two cultists can cast two seterate spells, if there's five then three of them can cast three seperate spells and if there's at least six then one of them can cast all three spell at once. The spells were ball of flame, tempest and sleep.

Another idea would be for the generic cultists to use predetermined spells (although I think they should be the three the heroes have access to, like before) and the tzeench ones could be random. That would make them much more of threat.[url].[/url]

[Daedalus]

I wouldn't want all Cultists on the board to determine casting. Rather, I'd go with line of sight which directly pertains to spellcasting.

I'm not sure if I follow you here. Either there are one close enough to actually cast a spell, or they are all too far away and it doesn't matter.
They are not getting more or stronger spells because there are a lot on the table. No matter the amount they get ONE spell for ONE of them to cast.

I should have elaborated, but I was tired when the post was made. Don't forget about Summon Orcs, Summon Undead, and Escape, which can be cast without a target in line of sight. If a single Cultist is revealed and then flees from sight of the Heroes (or the Heroes leave), can't he then cast those spells (even repeatedly with luck) out of sight and then return afterwards with a small army of bodyguards? I dunno if I'd want to allow a monster to generate bodyguards unmolested, only to have it return turns later to cast more spells behind a wall of meat and bones. Others may like that idea, I guess. I'd rather stay away from offstage casting--the rules don't address it. Requiring line of sight in the Cultists' ability would cut out the possibility.

I have some new Cultists spellcasting suggestions:

• Once a group of Cultists draw a spell, it is immediately cast and discarded. Discarded cards are returned to the Chaos spell deck after the group of Cultists is wiped out.
• Limit a group of Cultists' total available Chaos spell draws (tracked through discards) to the number of Cultists currently present. As a group of Cultists is reduced, so is the limit on the total.
  Thus, a lone Cultist can only cast one spell, while a group of six Cultists may potentially cast six spells over six turns. However, it is more likely with undefended Cultists that only a couple spells will be cast, and the last one or two Cultists will only be able to attack. This is because the new spell-draw limit of one or two (based on remaining Cultists) prevents further casting. Without this limit, one or more hit-and-run Cultists could potentially cast more spells than even the Witch Lord!
• Escape may have to be cut out of the Cultists' random Chaos spell deck if a Quest doesn't note a "safe place" on the map. Otherwise, the Quest, Expansion rules, or the Cultist ability should specify some other result for a "safe place", such as with another Cultist group or boss. If the Quest Notes don't designate a safe place on the map, then a drawn Escape Spell can simply be a wasted action for the casting Cultist. -edit Or a Cultist could ecape to any unrevealed room on the gameboard.-edit, edit

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[Daedalus]

I strongly suggest keeping the 2 Defend dice for the kobolds.
When I whipped up these stats I was thinking about the EWP strategy options of luring heroes effectively.
Pwetty pwease, have a heart.

There, there. The stat change is only a suggestion.

The only real objection I have is the re-titling of kobolds. If the swampy elements don't fit for the kobolds, I suggest we focus some time on them and develop their stats/abilities/spells more to make them stand out on their own. I've always really liked the story premise that the kobolds working with the Fimir is strange and unnatural adding tension to the story. All of which could be played up in the story notes

The Reptilian name is also flexible. I'm thinking maybe Kobolds is okay, particularly if there's a story spin to fit them in. As far as I know, the name dates waaay back to medieval days of German mining, but Gygax definitely put the current spin on it. Reptilian could work better as a substitute for dragonkin. Dragonkin definitely smacks of D&D.

[knightkrawler]

The word goblin stems from the same root as kobold.
Basically, a Kobold is a small, evasive (invisible) creature, not necessarily evil in nature, but obscure in intention.
That's why I kept the name when I carried the miniature design and the Kobold idea over from D&D. In my mind, they have never been seen in the Empire, maybe heard of, but it's really a mystery why they are "visiting" the Fimir.
I imagine that the word "kobold" is not the race's actual name, especially not their own name for themselves, but just a term coined for now by those in the Empire who have heard these worrisome stories about them flushing the swamps in secret. but basically I want to keep their D&D-like background. Warmblooded reptilian underground/cave dwellers with a strong affinity towards dragons, very naive, not evil, but highly superstitious and thus very easily impressionable.
I understand searching for a different term might be in order, especially with the Kobold-name/Reptilian-concept being clearly and establishedly D&D background.

Maybe I should have explained that earlier. I didn't cause I saw it as a problem to be solved in editing when a glimpse of their background has been established by the actual arc and the quest writers, if at all.
The actual name for them is not even important for us to know. The chaos warriors' name for themselves wouldn't be chaos warriors, to draw a parallel.

I do not like Reptilian. It's too broad. Imagine if someone wants to introduce different reptilian monsters into the same reality we're establishing with this HQ25 quest pack, for using Warhammer Skinks and Saurus, maybe. What to call them? They're even more reptilian than the reptilians, then, but the term has been coined by a very clear understanding of what a reptilian should be. Do you see what I mean?

I hate Dragonkin as a race name and term. This I needn't explain, I hope. I'm with Daedalus there, all the way.

One other thing: We desperately need an all-new, all-different icon for "kobolds". That huge face of a Saurus does not fit, period. It doesn't. How to make icons?

[TMU]

One other thing: We desperately need an all-new, all-different icon for "kobolds". That huge face of a Saurus does not fit, period. It doesn't. How to make icons?

We could work with (What is that guys name... He has two part name and a simpsons avatar... But what is his name..?), and maybe do a HQ25 pack for HS, wich the editors will then use to get the same icons and tiles for the hole book.

Edit: Derfel Link

[Goblin-King]

One other thing: We desperately need an all-new, all-different icon for "kobolds". That huge face of a Saurus does not fit, period. It doesn't. How to make icons?

I've been sketching some ideas for Chaos Dwarf and Kobold icons. I just need to locate and set up the scanner.


@ Daedalus
Ah okay I get what you mean.
I kinda addressed the summoning problem myself already

Maybe the random spell concept (while fun and thematic) causes too many gameplay problems?
An alternative rule could be to keep the concept that ONE cultist may cast ONE spell per turn, but simply choose 3 spells they can choose from.

Every round a single Chaos Cultist may cast a spell instead of attacking.
No other Chaos Cultists may cast any spells that round.
He may choose between the following Chaos Spells: X, Y and Z
All three spells are always available each round even if they've already been cast before.


I don't hate the concept of having to have a certain minimum of cultists, but I think the tiers with different amounts and different allowed spells are too elaborate in their current form..
Another problem I see is that you have to include a huge amount of monsters to be able to cast.
It's assumed that a couple will always be killed before they get their turn.
That means to ever get to cast the high tier spells you'll have to stick ~8 Cultists in a room.

[Count Mohawk]

I don't hate the concept of having to have a certain minimum of cultists, but I think the tiers with different amounts and different allowed spells are too elaborate in their current form.
Another problem I see is that you have to include a huge amount of monsters to be able to cast.
It's assumed that a couple will always be killed before they get their turn.
That means to ever get to cast the high tier spells you'll have to stick ~8 Cultists in a room.

If we let vanilla Cultists do one spell per turn, regardless of number, that is probably balanced. The three spells they would probably be best suited to having available (ie the 3 weakest ones) are Fireball, Tempest and a third, either Fear or Sleep. They can either just get the spell automatically or, if that's too strong, base it on a die roll: one die per Cultist, with a spell being cast if they get at least one Black Shield. Let's all agree on something though so we can close the book on it.
Also, as far as putting 8 cultists in a room... I think the most we would ever want is maybe 6, and probably 4. Three guys behind some furniture while a Chaos Warrior and friends hold the front line for a turn will do wonders for their survivability..

[Goblin-King]

If we let vanilla Cultists do one spell per turn, regardless of number, that is probably balanced. The three spells they would probably be best suited to having available (ie the 3 weakest ones) are Fireball, Tempest and a third, either Fear or Sleep. They can either just get the spell automatically or, if that's too strong, base it on a die roll: one die per Cultist, with a spell being cast if they get at least one Black Shield. Let's all agree on something though so we can close the book on it.

I'd say let them always have the Spell automatically. They die pretty fast anyways. Opinions? Agree it would be nice to get this over and done.

Also, as far as putting 8 cultists in a room... I think the most we would ever want is maybe 6, and probably 4. Three guys behind some furniture while a Chaos Warrior and friends hold the front line for a turn will do wonders for their survivability.

Exactly!.

[TMU]

I'd go with the automatical as well