Dexterity?

[timbrwolf]

Played heroquest quite a long time ago and recently am more familiar with dungeons and dragons rules...or even the rpg card game dragon storm. But heroquest is of course much simpler than the other two games and easier for younger children first starting out with rpgs to learn. But after years of the others I am used to some sort of reflex/dexterity stat. For example to use in dodging. I vaguely recall that there was a way of reducing damage on certain spells, similar to how d&d incorporates a reflex save, by which you rolled 2d6 and if a 5 or 6 was rolled damage was reduced by 1 or 2...but this doesn't seem to mesh well for trying to dodge. Or if wanting to allow certain, more dextrous characters, like say a theif, a bit more of an advantage than say a fighter.

Does anyone know...who may be a bit more familiar at this time than myself, if there is such a way to do this in heroquest or if not, if anyone has their own home rules for incorporating this?

[Daedalus]

Old posts from the Old Scratch's Heroquest Forum added a dexterity stat to Hero Cards. I think that isn't necessary.

A Hero has these sets of stats: Attack Dice , Defend Dice , Body Points , Mind Points , and Movement . BPs and MPs work as strength and intelligence/wisdom. I'd use a Hero's movement dice as a dexterity score. If you want a Thief Hero to have a better stat for dodging spell attacks, give him a reroll of failures with the red dice. A Hero in plate mail would rightly have a low dexterity, being so slowed. He could be limited to just the one red die for dodging, or be made to reroll any success.

[torilen]

There are several ways to make use of a dexterity bonus/score or such.

You could use skill cards, and some have introduced, that offer a bonus to certain types of rolls:
- against physical spells (fireball, lightning bolt, magic missile, etc.)
- against darts, arrows, and spears traps

You could give certain class-types a bonus...instead of having to roll 5 or 6 or 1 or two dice, they can
roll 4-6 instead.
In the same vein, you could offer a bonus like the dwarf has for disarming traps - instead of roll 2d6,
they can instead roll a combat die for certain rolls (as shown above) and roll anything but a black shield.

You can base it on Body Points - since only a portion of the Body score would be for dexterity, you could
use 1/3 or 1/2 of the points...for every 2 points, you can decrease the result of a rolled die (from 6 to 5, for example).

Thanks yo gimmeyergold - I've come to really enjoy the idea of skill cards. They offer a LOT of variety
and design options for characters, without having to create new hero types, which adds to the rules a lot.
Skill cards allow players of all types to use them or not, create the character types they want, and you can
create any sort of skill cards you desire. They allow almost anything.

So...that might be my suggestion. And then, any hero type can have a dexterity bonus. If you want to take it
a slight step further, you can add requirements to the skill cards (I forget who recently introduced this idea...
CP maybe?). This idea would be: You can get a dexterity bonus skill card when you have successful dodged three
traps, or when you have successful blocked ALL possible damage three times in a row...something like that.

[timbrwolf]

Thanks for the suggestions.

[Malcadon]

I have been thinking about adding Feats of Strength and Dexterity into HQ. Where most would use the Dragon Strike rules wholesale (roll a d8, d10 or d12 vs 6 or more to succeed), I would making it more like the Mind-based spell rolls and the rolls to open stone doors in Against the Ogre Horde. So here in is, Might, Agility, Body and Mind Tests:

Might Test: When preforming an action that requires strength, roll Combat Dice equal to you starting Attack Dice score (not adjusted by weapons). Every rolled count as one success -- enough to force open a normal door, or to push wooden furniture.

Agility Test: When preforming an action that requires dexterity, roll Combat Dice equal to you starting Defense Dice score (not adjusted by armor, save for Platemail, which lowers it by one point). Every rolled count as one success -- enough to jump a normal pit.

Body Test: When dealing with anything that requires endurance or constitution, roll Combat Dice equal to you Body Points. Every rolled count as one success -- enough to counter a negative effect on your body or heath, like getting drugged or poisoned.

Mind Test: When dealing with anything that requires intelligence or willpower, roll Combat Dice equal to you Mind Points. Every rolled count as one success -- enough to brake a mind-controlling spell or figure-out a simple magic trap or puzzle.

Note that some tasks requires more then one success. A Might Test to force open a normal door would only require a singe success, while a reinforced door would require two, and a stone slab or large portcullis would require three to lift. Some item or artifacts could created to enhance your rolls. For example, the quarterstaff and spear could allow an extra die when jumping pits. You could have a magic talisman that can add a point to Mind when dealing with spells, while you also have a magic headband that add a point to Mind when dealing with puzzles or magic traps.

Might and Agility Tests count as actions. Body and Mind Tests are "saves", in that they are used to react to things, and thus are free-actions.

If you feel that the Elf should have more agility (and with it, better deference at the start), you could rule that they have a base Defense Dice score of 3, and rule that they cannot wear platemail armor.

How does that sound?

[timbrwolf]

That's very helpful melcadon, thanks. I had also seen the dragonstrike rules but didn't want to get into using d8s etc. wanting to add some things to heroquest but at the same time keep it simple using only combat dice and d6.

These will work nicely though a thought just occurred to me in regards to the the Might Test. The characters START with weapons though not armor and that base attack die is equal to whatever weapon they have. Though wasn't there a quest where the heros didn't have weapons but had to find them?

[Malcadon]

That's very helpful melcadon, thanks. I had also seen the dragonstrike rules but didn't want to get into using d8s etc. wanting to add some things to heroquest but at the same time keep it simple using only combat dice and d6.

Glad you like it.

These will work nicely though a thought just occurred to me in regards to the the Might Test. The characters START with weapons though not armor and that base attack die is equal to whatever weapon they have. Though wasn't there a quest where the heros didn't have weapons but had to find them?

Well, in the original UK rules, the Heroes did not start with any weapons, but could still attack with the same number of CD as their armed US counter parts. In the UK rules, your basic Attack Dice represented your Hero's strength and unarmed attack power, while weapons only enhance their attacks with more CD or the ability to attack diagonally (that is why the UK shortsword grants diagonal attacks). In this case, I merged the ideas somewhat.

In the US game, there is a Quest where the Heroes are captured by an Orc Worlord, and they have to find their gear and spells in their escape. In the Quest notes, it stated that all unarmed Heroes attacks using only one CD, and must roll a to score a hit. If you are using my system with Might Tests, you could allow for unarmed attacks to be equal to the Hero's basic Attack Dice/Might score, but with used to hit. This would make them stronger then what the official rules would allow, but they could hold their own better, and the Barbarian could still kick ass without anything.

[timbrwolf]

Thanks for the response, interesting how the two editions differ like that. Did the uk edition also have a quest where they started without weapons or no seeing as you said they don't start with weapons period.

[Malcadon]

Thanks for the response, interesting how the two editions differ like that. Did the uk edition also have a quest where they started without weapons or no seeing as you said they don't start with weapons period.

Yes, the UK game did have the Quest were the Heroes have to find their gear, but it there case, the players need to find the armory room so they can use all their Equipment, Treasure and Spell Cards (they did not use the Armory system, so Equipment were limited by the number of cards in the game). Otherwise, the Heroes fight with no special impairments — namely having to hit with this: .

Mind you, I base my knowledge of the UK rules on the First Edition set; I have not checked it out the Second Edition UK set.

[Patroclus]

There are not monsters with spells in HQ, except bosses, of course you could make your own monsters as we all do, but the spells in HQ are rare and when your GM will put some he will do it for a reason, because he wants to make a heavy encounter. If you add saving throws you will make things easier and the GM has to put more tough spells to raise the difficulty.

Though, balance is good but no balance could have more fun. It’s up to you.

Of course, as Torilen said, it’s better to make some limited tokens or skill cards (three is a magic number) and do some play testing. And, I am sure if your thief succeeds to avoid a deadly spell he will be very happy, and this is the meaning of gaming.