"Attack Twice" and defence

[Templar]

I just had a thought about the "attack twice" ability that can be provided by potions and, more specifically, Orcs Bane.

As I have come to understand, the correct rules to follow is to only allow the target to defend itself against the first attack. As I thought this was way to hard on the monsters, I simply said to my gaming group that monsters can defend themself against every attack made against them on a players turn. Then, when trying to create Bows for the heroes to use, which I gave the "attack twice" thing to illustrate their faster attack speed compared to the crossbow, I realized that multiple defence really gives the monsters much better armour (x times their basic armour).

So I am currently thinking of two options:
1) Keep the allways defend rule, and thus reasoning that each attack have to face the same amout of armour.
2) Allow the Evil Wizard to roll a selected amout of defence dice against each attack during a players turn, whith the total amount equaling the defence of the monster. This reasoning is based on that it is (might be) harder to defend against a weapon with a faster attack rate.

I am really interested in if anyone else has reasoned about this, and what you think is the best option.

[Phoenix]

Perhaps simply making it one less defend die for the second attack, thereby giving a reasonable reason (in regards to response time).

One would then assume that the Attack is "faster" and the Defend is "slower", so to speak.

Alternatively, depending on the weapon, perhaps 2 fewer defend dice for the monster on the second attack.

One could then decide if the monster will get a minimum of one defend die or simply not be able to defend the second attack if their defend dice is already at one.

[Sjeng]

I keep forgetting this, and the orcs always defend twice -.-

and hey! welcome back Phoenix! long time no see

[Goblin-King]

Or grant the second attack an attack dice bonus IF he shoots at the same target twice - not needing to re-aim.
So he can either kill two different monsters, or be (kinda) certain to kill just one.
That way you keep the "special" rules on a single weapon instead of spreading it out over all monsters.

As for the actual discussion, I go by the simple rule 1 attack = 1 defense. Having a two attacks bow seems very good to me, even if the monsters can defend normally.

But another question I've never seen raised... Does Orc's Bane and the potion (heroic brew? Can't remember!!) stack? 4 attacks if surrounded by orcs?!

[Ethica]

I wouldn't want to complicate the rules too much. Having the second attack undefenable seems like a bit powerful to me, having the opportunity to attack again is bonus enough.

[el_flesh]

I would allow hero postion to stack Orc Bane to 4 attacks.

As for second and onward defense - just allow the armor or clothes the creature has to be the defense. In the case of a Chaos knight, it will be most of his normal defense. In the case of a goblin/orc - like ZERO.

[Daedalus]

There is already a thread about Orc's Bane and multiple attacks that relates to this topic, so check it out if you haven't already:
http://www.yeoldeinn.com/hqforum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=52&p=16658#p16658

...
But another question I've never seen raised... Does Orc's Bane and the potion (heroic brew? Can't remember!!) stack? 4 attacks if surrounded by orcs?!

I say it sounds like fun, so hell yeah! First drink the Heroic Brew before you attack, gaining the ability to attack twice. The card says "This may only be used once", so no stacking Heroic Brews. Your first attack is against an Orc, so you again gain the attack twice ability from a source not prohibited from the Heroic Brew card. Orc's Bane attacks #1 and #2 possibly kill one or two adjacent Orcs. Your second Heroic Brew attack now comes up and you again qualify for the double attack ability against one or two Orcs (attacks #3 and #4). Bouyah!

A Potion of Speed (EQP) or Battle Rage (BQP) extends the fun still further into later rounds. If the Elf has the Elf spell Timestop available and casts it on another Hero with Orc's Bane, then that Hero gets yet another turn to first close, and then slice and dice before the next set of hapless Orcs even gets a chance to attack back or run away. Sure, it's crazy, but lets face it, HQ encourages munchkin play with light or non-existent stacking restrictions. Go with the moment, have a cheer, and then move on. Morcar/Zargon probably has a couple of Warbears waiting around the corner, anyway. After the kill, the Warbears can put Orc's Bane to use as a toothpick.

[Templar]

Thanks Daedalus for the link, there are some good discussions about this topic there.

And thanks to everyone else for your thoughts. I will bring up the options with my playing group next time around.

lets face it, HQ encourages munchkin play with light or non-existent stacking restrictions. Go with the moment, have a cheer, and then move on. Morcar/Zargon probably has a couple of Warbears waiting around the corner, anyway. After the kill, the Warbears can put Orc's Bane to use as a toothpick.

This is what I think is the essence of HeroQuest. You want to have a back-up battle axe if you loose your first one? Sure, why not Take a couple of back-up croosbows also, you will probably misplace your first three sooner or later...