Mounted combat rules

[Nephew of Mentor]

I did a quick search and only found a short mention of mounts, so pardon me if I missed it. I had an idea for mounted combat, which I thought I should share before I forget it.

These rules would be useful if you were to include either animals that could be mounted, or monsters (like centaurs) with horse like characteristics. I think the inclusion of a mounted knight in one of the 2 square wide halls could be fun.

1. While mounted, a character, or monster, has the speed of their mount.
2. While mounted, heroes, or Zargon may move, attack(while moving) and then move again, so long as the sum of the two moves are equal to or less than their maximum movement. This means that after a turn is finished, two combatants will not necessarily be standing adjacent to one another. In some cases, this could be a decided disadvantage for the unmounted players. Imagine, a mounted knight with 12 squares of movement, starts two squares away from the dwarf. He closes distance, attacks, and deals 3 damage to the dwarf, and then moves the rest of his movement squares. The dwarf has now taken a major hit, but he has only rolled a 5, yet the knight is too far away to reach, so the Dwarf cannot fight back this turn and would be better off finding a doorway to duck into. Wall of Fire and such spells would be very helpful here.
3. A movement made "On-the-run" is more powerful than a standing attack, but less accurate. Basically, the rider would roll a number of attack dice, but those dice would each be worth more than a single damage if successful. For example, roll 2 dice, and each hit scored is worth 3 damage.
4. If two mounted fighters attack one another, (joust style) whoever has first turn determines how many tiles they will move and then holds their turn. The next person decides how far they will move. Then, both figures are moved one square at a time toward each other, until they are diagonal from each other (if armed with spears, pole arms, or long weapons) or they are adjacent to one another. Those fighting in this way then roll the appropriate combat dice, plus one. Defense and attack occur in this same roll. (Not sure this rule works, and not sure if it would ever be used)

I thought about this while attempting to sleep last night, so, I want to know what fully conscious minds have to say about it.

[Patroclus]

12 squares are too much. The giant wolf of elven’s pack has the maximum movement of HQ and it is 9(only gremlin has 10 but because of his skill to steal), so I believe you should keep it as the maximum movement for 4-leg animals.

The move-attack-move is good for monsters with multiple attacks, like bosses for example, but for single attack only in corridors it has some meaning. The bad is that if they are more of them, they could hit the same target by doing move-hit and go back, to leave space for the second to go forth hit and move back, and this means that they could kill a hero in a round. So, a pack of these monsters is not a good idea.

About the extra damage, I think it is wrong. in my opinion the fixed number of square per movement and the move-attack-move skill are enough!

A great idea by the way

[Nephew of Mentor]

I cannot agree more that you cannot allow these to gang up on heroes. I was thinking these could be the type of creature which may appear multiple times in a dungeon, but never in the same hallway.

I didn't even think about creatures with multiple attacks, that could be devastating unless you attacked two different characters entirely.

I added the extra damage solely because of reality, though I suppose this could easily be applying too much reality to the game, considering the deadly potential, considering the possibility of one hit kills.

Thank you for the additional thoughts, I'd love to hear more.

[Zenithfleet]

I have to admit that the idea of mounts in HeroQuest seemed a bit silly to me at first... who'd bring a horse into a dungeon?

Then I remembered the Spirit Riders in Return of the Witch Lord. Imagine if they emerged from their tombs riding skeletal steeds.

I know I'm not being too helpful here, but just wanted to say that I now approve.

By the way, there are semi-official monsters with a Move of 12 (like the Skaven from the White Dwarf quests - was it Durrag Dol?)

[Nephew of Mentor]

Thanks for the approval.

I just figured, if there is a dungeon that contains Centaurs or Mounted warriors as guards then they likely were built to fit them, haha. Especially in the case of the centaur, they have no option of dismounting, after all.

Also, as far as movement. The goblin moves 10 as well (in the US at least). And I can't imagine a goblin outrunning a horse.

[Big Bene]

Well, I think it's fun to devise rules for new in-game situations, and you came up with some great ideas. On the other hand, I find riding in HeroQuest somewhat odd...
I always have a dungeon before my inner eye, underground hallways and labyrinthical passages. Most quests fit into this, and the gameboard enhances this idea. Of course there are overland quests, where riding could be appropriate, but I'm talking about "normal" HeroQuest here.

Horseriding in a dungeon (or any building) is difficult and even dangerous. So I think it's fitting that there are no riding rules in the original system. When we introduce "mounted combat rules" (and as said before, I'm always for making up house-rules for new situations), I would think it appropriate to take the hazards of riding under a ceiling into account.
This would also make for better balance. A mounted enemy (or hero) would certainly have some advantages regarding movement and combat, but on the other hand face some difficulties.

I can think of the following:
1 - The mount moves too near at the wall, so the rider may be injured or fall off.
2 - The mount rears up and the rider's head is rammed to the ceiling. My own great-grandfather died this way (of course, he didn't ride into a dungeon, just inside a stable).
3 - The mount is unnerverd by the combat and buckles or bolts.
1 and 2 would only be relevant in dungeons (not overland quests), 3 would be relevant only in combat situations (but in dungeon and overland quests alike).

How do we put this in rules? Well, of course we can roll a die every time a rider moves, but perhaps you can come up with more elegant solutions.

Here's a sketch:

• If a rider moves or fights, the player rolls a die. Only one test is made per game turn - you may have to test for both movement and combat, but not for movement, combat, and movement again, even if you split your move.
  The first action determines the first test (i. e. if you move towards an opponent, you test first for moving, and if this test is passed, you face the enemy and test for combat, but if you already stand adjactand to an opponent, you test for combat first, and if you pass the test [and win the combat itself], and want to move on, yout test then for movement).
  If a rider starts movement in a corridor and moves into a room, for simplicity just consider him riding "in a corridor", and vice versa.
• When riding in a corridor, roll 1D6. On a result of 1 or 2, something goes wrong. Roll another D6 to determine the results:
  1-4: The mount runs along the wall, grinding the rider's leg to the rough stone. Take two combat dice of damage for every five squares of movement. Test against Strength with a D6. If failed, the rider falls off his mount at half way.
  5: The mount rears up, and the rider takes four combat dice of damage without defense (except for a helmet, which gives two defense dice).
  6: The mount buckles. The rider can take no movement or other action this turn. He also has to test against Strength or fall off, taking 2 combat dice of damage.
• When riding in a room, roll 1D6. On a result of 1, somthing goes wrong.. Roll another D6 to determine the results:
  1: The mount runs along the wall, grinding the rider's leg to the rough stone. Take two combat dice of damage for every five squares of movement. Test against Strength with a D6. If failed, the rider falls off his mount at half way.
  2-4: The mount rears up, and the rider takes four combat dice of damage without defense (except for a helmet, which gives two defense dice).
  5-6: The mount buckles. The rider can take no movement or other action this turn. He also has to test against Strength or fall off, taking 2 combat dice of damage.
• When fighting (attacking or beeing attacked), roll 1D6. On a result of 1 or 2, somthing goes wrong.. Roll another D6 to determine the results:
  1: The mount rears up, and the rider takes four combat dice of damage without defense (except for a helmet, which gives two defense dice).
  2-4: The mount buckles. The rider can take no movement or other action this turn. He also has to test against Strength or fall off, taking 2 combat dice of damage.
  5-6: The mount bolts. Immediately make an extra movement at the mount's maximum speed. The direction of this move is determined by the enemy player. Make a test against Strength or fall off, taking 2 combat dice of damage. On every succesive turn, make another test against Strengh to take control over your mount again. Add one to your Strengh every turn (for this purpose only), as the mount will calm down by it's own over time.

Looks a bit much, but in effect, it's mostly just one die roll per turn. Then again, i would be happy if you find a more simplified, "elegant" rule.

The move-attack-move is good for monsters with multiple attacks, like bosses for example, but for single attack only in corridors it has some meaning. The bad is that if they are more of them, they could hit the same target by doing move-hit and go back, to leave space for the second to go forth hit and move back, and this means that they could kill a hero in a round. So, a pack of these monsters is not a good idea.

Don't think so. Remember, there is a rule prohibiting passing the same square twice in one turn. As (at least to me) the original movement rules still apply to riders, this would effectively prevent a multiple-attack-monster from moving about in a room to hit the same hero again and again, restricting the splitted move to what Nephew probably ment it to be: a "charge", taking advantage of the momentum of the running mount.
My

[Nephew of Mentor]

Bene is absolutely correct about the charge. I also thought that having a charge attack would be pointless without long straightaways(such as can only be found in hallways). Because I figure you wouldn't get much momentum in a room where you are forced to turn in the middle of a charge. I also didn't feel like going into the results of a "charge" through an occupied square, so my rule idea is limited to the hallways that are a minimum of 2 squares wide.

These hazard rules are interesting. I understand completely some resistance to having mounts in the game, as it is only sensible. But I wonder how you feel about centaurs and the like. I would guess they wouldn't have to worry about grinding legs, or falling off, and would be fairly familiar with their own height limits as well, but I would welcome your thoughts on them. I ask especially in light of the revelation, by Toco, of the official concept sketches of centaurs to be included in either the dwarf quest pack, or the wizard quest pack. I'll confess that I made these rules with the hope of applying them specifically to centaurs, and to riders on the DS outdoor boards.

Also, I keep seeing mention of a rule keeping heroes from retracing their steps during a turn. Is this not in the American rule book? I cannot find it anywhere I look. Was this added in a later expansion or something?

[Big Bene]

Well, of course the hazards cannont be applied to centaures in the given form. But as I said, these rules are just a quick sketch of what I can think of, with the hope of a better solution in mind, so I see no point in adapting them to centaures. Centaures of course may be handicapped underground (or in buildings), so perhaps they just may have two different sets of stats?

. I also didn't feel like going into the results of a "charge" through an occupied square, so my rule idea is limited to the hallways that are a minimum of 2 squares wide.

Not necessarily. I would just resolve the combat as you described in your first post. If the enemy is not killed, the square is occupied, and can not be moved through, but if he is killed, the square is no longer occupied, and you can continue your "spit" move. You may see this as "overriding" your enemy. It's all in the rules, as they stand.

As for the "maynot... move through the same square twice" rule, it's on page seven of the english version of the european rules, and repeated on page 12.

[Nephew of Mentor]

Well, in that case "I'm proud to be an American, where at least I know I'm free" to move through the same space twice in a single turn. (Sorry for that, I couldn't help myself). I also can't help but imagine the mines of Moria with their high ceilings, haha. I guess Peter Jackson has tainted my imagination a little, oh well.

[Big Bene]

I know I'm free" to move through the same space twice

Weeell,but in this case it would help your cause.
Perhaps you could add this to your riding rules given in post 1:
"While riding a mount, you may not move over the same square in a single turn, even when otherwise playing the NAmerican rules. This represents the momentum of the galloping mount. You may ignore this rule when riding in "walk". When riding in the walk bait, you move and fight as if not mounted at all".
This would apply to "normal" moves and charges alike, effectively avoiding boss monsters bouncing around.