Japanese HeroQuest: Card Translations

[HispaZargon]

To show similarity, a character in the Japanese Bleach manga is called Grimmjow in English, but in Japanese it is Gurimujō. It's intentionally a foreign name converted, fairly common for this fiction.

Yeah, my colleague also told me about a similar geek topic of frequent debate in Manga stuff, maybe is the same one you mention.

[Kurgan]

Like the Grimreaper? (lord of death)

[HispaZargon]

Hi, one doubt I have about Japanese Treasure card Holy Water...

This is the text in Japanese of the original Holy Water card:

聖水

部屋の片隅に忘れ去られた聖水
のボトルを見つけた。 聖水は戦
闘の代わりに使うことができる。
聖水を使うと、自分に面した、
スクルトン、 ジンビ、マミーな
どのアンデッドのモンスターを
1 匹滑し去ることができる。
聖水を使って、モンスターを倒
してもゴールドを手にいれるこ
とはできない。

... and this is what Google Translator says this text means: I found a bottle of Holy Water forgotten in a corner of the room. Holy Water can be used instead of fighting. It will make one undead monster, such as a Skeleton, Zombie, or Mummy, glide away from me when it faces me. Using Holy Water to kill a monster will not give you any gold.

... and this is what DeepL Translator says this text means: In a corner of the room I found a forgotten bottle of holy water. Holy water can be used instead of combat. Using the holy water, you can slip away one undead monster facing you, such as a Skeleton, Zombie or Mummy. You do not get any gold for killing monsters with holy water.

The sentences I maked in bold are the following one writte in Japanese in the card:

聖水を使うと、自分に面した、スクルトン、 ジンビ、マミーなどのアンデッドのモンスターを1 匹滑し去ることができる。

In the other hand, this is what our current translation (v.1.1) of Japanese Holy Water says:

Holy Water

You find a forgotten bottle of
Holy Water in a corner of the
room. Holy water can be used
instead of combat. You can
use Holy Water to eliminate 1
undead monster facing you,
such as a Skeleton, Zombie,
or Mummy. You cannot get
gold by defeating monsters
with Holy Water.

I recently realized that the text is confusing from rules point of view... what means "facing you" from rules point of view? I was quite surprised about we missed this flaw, so I tried to dig in all the previous discussions we have had about this trying to find an answer. Here you have all of them, extracted from previous posts of this thread, shorted in order of apperance:

Holy Water
Discarded and forgotten in a corner of the room you find a vial of holy water. You may use th holy water instead of attacking. It will kill one undead creature (Skeleton, Zombie, or Mummy) immediately. The card is then discarded.

Holy Water
Discarded and forgotten in a corner of the room you find a vial of holy water. You may use the holy water instead of attacking. It will kill one undead creature (Skeleton, Zombie, or Mummy) immediately. The card is then discarded.

The Japanese card also specifies that the Hero does not get the gold reward for defeating a monster with holy water (I think).

Holy Water
I'd change ". . . Holy water can be used instead of attacking. You may use it to eliminate an undead monster adjacent to you, such as a Skeleton, Zombie, or Mummy. You cannot get gold by defeating monsters using Holy Water." > . . . Holy Water can be used instead of combat. You can use Holy Water to eliminate one undead monster facing you, such as a Skeleton, Zombie, or Mummy. You cannot get gold by defeating monsters with Holy Water.

Ok, I agree. I will aplly the changes but again, I will include the number "1" instead of word "one", as in original card.

So, unfortunately, there is not an explicit answer for what means "facing you". Does it mean the Monster must be adjacent to the Hero? Or does it mean Holy Water can be thrown against a Monster placed at a distance, in his line of sight? What does facing mean from rules point of view?? Moreover, the original text did not say the Monster is defeated, it just says the Monster is "put away", no idea either how to interprete that, except the Monster is actually defeated. Anyhow, ideas and Japanese language knowledge are welcome...

Edit: After checking the rest of translations we have already done (Rulebook, Cards, etc.) and researching a bit through internet, it looks like using the character 面 in sentence 自分に面した is linked with the concept of "adjacent", so it seem the sentence requires the Monster must be adjacent to the Hero. Moreover if the original text were mistaken, another option could be the correct character were 接 instead of 面, but in that case 接 were linked with the concept of "contact", so again it seems the Hero and Mosnter should be in contact. Then I suggest re-writting the Holy Water card as follows:

Holy Water

You find a forgotten bottle of
Holy Water in a corner of the
room. Holy water can be used
instead of combat. You can
use Holy Water to eliminate 1
undead monster adjacent
to you, such as a Skeleton,
Zombie, or Mummy. You
cannot get gold by defeating
monsters with Holy Water.

If nobody disagree I will also correct the corresponding PDF with the cards. Otherwise the card as written now is unlikely playable.

[Chwat]

As my wife is Japanese, I asked her for insights. She mentioned that when the undead attack the hero, you can use holy water instead of engaging in armed combat. This suggests that, since the undead fight in close quarters, holy water is meant to be used at close range rather than from a distance. Regarding 'slip away,' it essentially counts as a kill.

If that is the case home brew for ranged or possible push back X amount of squares/water AoE counter mechanics?

[HispaZargon]

Oh, thanks! it makes rather sense with what I said above.

But, do you mean the card says that the Hero can only use Holy Water when attacked by the undead during the Evil Wizard turn? Just to confirm because it is a quite disruptive an cool mechanic compared with other versions of the game.

[Chwat]

She mentioned that the card isn't represented clearly but believes it would make sense if the effect only applies to undead monsters. The rules are quite loose, similar to some in the Western version of HeroQuest, and could be open for players to adjust. My take is that the card can be played during the hero's turn, regardless of what happened during the evil wizard's turn. However, without a hard copy of the game to play with her, it's hard to say with 100% certainty. For a fun homebrew twist, you could allow the card to be cast right after an undead creature attacks during the evil wizard's turn, as long as the hero survives the dice roll.

[HispaZargon]

Ok, thanks again.

The thing is that does not make sense for me using this flask only if the Hero is attacked because Evil Wizard player will always know in advance that such Hero owns the Holy Water, so probably he would never attack him, potentially creating weird situations in the game. Additionally, according to the Japanese Rulebook page 9, the standard action of entering in "Combat" strictly means to attack to adjacent enemies, therefore, according to all mentioned, I guess the actual intention of the card is playing it during Hero's turn to eliminate an adjacent undead monster who could be menacing him, instead of performing the "Combat" action as normally.

Then I think my proposal shown at the end of this post is the most correct posible. The aim of this thread is trying to translate in the most accurate way as posible (and making sense) the Japanese version cards. I will also correct the corresponding PDF with the cards.

On this other thread you can download all the translations we have done up to now, including all the original Japanese documents.

[Chwat]

The monster definatly does not have to hit you for it to be use according to my wife.

[HispaZargon]

Great, then!

Everything clear

Here are the corrected versions of the Treasure card in both English and Spanish languages:

HQ_Japanese_Cards_Treasure_in_English_v1.2_by_HispaZargon_[PRINT-VERSION].pdf

HQ_Japanese_Cards_Treasure_in_Spanish_v1.1_by_HispaZargon_[PRINT-VERSION].pdf

[Kurgan]

I still like the idea of throwing holy water (like a hand grenade) at a long distance undead monster (I also like the "room clearing" ability of Holy Water in the PC version of HeroQuest), BUT I appreciate your adherence to accuracy in the translation and revealing the intentions of the designers (homebrew refinements can come from individual player tables as always), great work!