WIZARDS OF MORCAR discussion

[HispaZargon]

Edited by HispaZargon: I changed to thread title of "WIZARDS OF ZARGON discussion" to "WIZARDS OF MORCAR / ZARGON discussion" since according to recent leaks exists the chance to see the final product called as "Wizards of Morcar", however not confirmed yet."

Edited by HispaZargon: I changed to thread title of "WIZARDS OF MORCAR / ZARGON discussion" to "WIZARDS OF MORCAR discussion" since according to recent official news in Essen 2025, the final product is called as "Wizards of Morcar"."

Well, according to the leaks told by La Guarida de Morcar YouTube channel here, it seems that we will finally have a Wizards of Zargon expansion for remake's HeroQuest.

What we know by now about this expansion from La Guarida de Morcar video (you may consider it as rumours if you want, but I gave them a lot of trust due to previous leaks coming from this channel since they are supposed to come from an insider):

BEWARE, POSIBLE SPOILERS AHEAD

- The title Wizards of Zargon is just an assumption by now, then title not fully confirmed yet.

- It is planned to be released in 2025.

- The quest configuration will be the following one: 3 solo quests + 5 quests from WoM + 2 extra quests with a final battle against Zargon.

- It will include a Wizard Hero miniature.

- It will include a Zargon miniature.

The video also comments many other leaks about other future HQ products but I will comment them in other thread/s.

For me makes all the sense fighting against Zargon at the end. After all, the original prologue of WoM starts in the Morcar's tower... and the four evil wizards are supposed to be the last chance for Zargon plans.

Comments on the contents?

[LucaRocks]

Wow cool. Very excited for this to be released. I really hope they update the spells for the Wizard Bosses. Some of them were pretty lame lol.

I can't believe this will be released in 2025 though. Didn't 'Jungle' have the same release date? Makes me wonder what else we will have coming in 2024.

I am not sure if fighting Zargon is the right call though. Does that mean that the game is ending? Is Zargon being defeated forever? Will there be another antagonist afterward? Interesting. I do think having an official Zargon mini will be cool though. I'm going to have him out every game in front of the game screen.

[HispaZargon]

Well, you know that there is not any boss in HQ that is totally killed when it is killed onto the board... later alive "returnings" are always posible

[Vorimir]

I was thinking they were making WOM the Wizard Quest pack and it seems that way. Now thenidea that ATOH is going to be remade as the dwarf pack is getting more real to me...

[wallydubbs]

They really need to amp up the Wizard spells too. Darkness, Detection and Protection have a lot of potential they just need to be a little more effective to match up to the current elemental spells. I like Treasure Horde and Future Sight but Clairvoyance needs a little more specification on the terms "contents" and "room."
A more effective damage ratio for Arrows of the Night would be nice, but I think Chains of Darkness and Cloak of Shadow
Are decent enough.
Dispel should have more uses and Invisibility needs duration. I guess Wall of Stone is fine.

But knowing Hasbro, if they DO include these cards they'll proyjust keep them the same just for nostalgia and simplicity.

[HispaZargon]

Remake's version of AtOH will give us clues about how far they are going to modify WoM stuff for this WoZ. As you point, there are many rules about spells (but also about traps like Fireburst traps) which need a lot of changes to work well and adapted to the American rule system.

[SirRick]

I agree with the comments about the spells. The bad guy spells have a lot of potential, and interesting concepts, but they are hard to justify using them when wizard can just attack with 5 combat dice.

The hero spells do need work. Only Darkness seems viable as is, but even then I would not take it over the elemental spells. Arrows of Night is interesting because it is particularly effective on undead because they can’t defend against it, but it should probably be a little stronger. Maybe 3 combat dice?

For Protection, Invisibility almost seems useless, but it does make you invincible until your next turn, unlike Veil of Mist, so there is some use there. Dispel seems a little too situational for most quests. I think this spell group could benefit by replacing a spell with a new spell that can negate damage similar to the Warlock’s Dark Wings(?) spell or the Knight’s Shield Block, but instead of negating all damage, it reduces damage by 2 or 3 points but can be used on yourself or at range on an ally in reaction to an attack.

For the Detection spells, Clairvoyance just seems weak, and Treasure Hoard seems more harmful then any possible benefit you could receive. The spell should be changed to a spell version of the Treasure Without Doom scroll from MotM.

[wallydubbs]

I agree with the comments about the spells. The bad guy spells have a lot of potential, and interesting concepts, but they are hard to justify using them when wizard can just attack with 5 combat dice.

The hero spells do need work. Only Darkness seems viable as is, but even then I would not take it over the elemental spells. Arrows of Night is interesting because it is particularly effective on undead because they can’t defend against it, but it should probably be a little stronger. Maybe 3 combat dice?

For Protection, Invisibility almost seems useless, but it does make you invincible until your next turn, unlike Veil of Mist, so there is some use there. Dispel seems a little too situational for most quests. I think this spell group could benefit by replacing a spell with a new spell that can negate damage similar to the Warlock’s Dark Wings(?) spell or the Knight’s Shield Block, but instead of negating all damage, it reduces damage by 2 or 3 points but can be used on yourself or at range on an ally in reaction to an attack.

For the Detection spells, Clairvoyance just seems weak, and Treasure Hoard seems more harmful then any possible benefit you could receive. The spell should be changed to a spell version of the Treasure Without Doom scroll from MotM.

I feel Arrows of the Night should be 2 Damage, no roll necessary, but the target defending with Mind Points works for me.

Clairvoyance is very useful as long as it identifies traps, secret doors and maybe even special treasures in the room. The part where it says "if the room is empty you may not try again", needs specifications that a shaded area on the map should not count as a room.
I suppose Treasure Without Doom would be a safer route then Treasure Horde... the latter works for me because of my expanded treasure deck.

Like I said Invisibility needs duration with similar effects as Disappear... Or limit the hero to 1 dice movement and allow searches while monsters are present... If he's invisible he's not in any real danger... But I couldn't blame them if they just got rid of it and replaced it with spell immunity.
Dispel, though it says it takes away 1 random spell from the monster, I think it can be more effective if it can be used to remove a spell that is currently affecting on a hero and/or used to disarm a magical trap.
I've added the extra ability to the Wizard that he can detect magical traps.

[Aki]

Wow cool. Very excited for this to be released. I really hope they update the spells for the Wizard Bosses. Some of them were pretty lame lol.

I can't believe this will be released in 2025 though. Didn't 'Jungle' have the same release date? Makes me wonder what else we will have coming in 2024.

I am not sure if fighting Zargon is the right call though. Does that mean that the game is ending? Is Zargon being defeated forever? Will there be another antagonist afterward? Interesting. I do think having an official Zargon mini will be cool though. I'm going to have him out every game in front of the game screen.

I'm happy and sad at the same time
I love WoZ beacuse the evil wizards and obviously I appreciate the remake, but this rumor of final battle............. yes Zargon can return, but also not, it's time to move on?

[Kurgan]

It's silly to have a Zargon mini. It's like MegaTron holding himself as a gun... BUT that said, I know a lot of fans (including me) have been clamoring for a Zargon Mini.

The trouble is, unless it looks like an angry old man with a long beard in a dracula cape holding a book I'm gonna not think it's the "real" Zargon.

Plus, what is the point of this, that you capture him, kill him, and then what? It was a big fake out and an identical evil wizard with a different name takes over? Morcar and Grimdead are other big bad guys or the same person in different guises?

Zargon was defeated before and it took centuries for him to recover but he came back. Even if they made a "death of Zargon" official quest, that doesn't mean the game has to END for crying out loud. Even if you're a strict "follow the official canon no matter what" kind of person who hangs on what the company says (they could say tomorrow the opposite of what they said before, if the parent company wanted them to, after all)... you can still set your adventures before that "fateful end" or come up with some BS excuse as to why you're doing it again (just give a little more effort than Star Wars did with "somehow... Palpatine returned" though in a game like this, even that is really all you would "need").

If the Witch Lord can go through multiple defeats and still be a threat, I'm sure Zargon will have his run. And for all we know, let's for the sake of argument accept the rumors at face value... Zargon dies... his body is blown up, everybody sees it, the coroner from the Wizard of Oz thoroughly examines the fragments and concludes that he's not only "merely dead" but he's "really most sincerely dead." Even if that is the case, he can still come back, officially, because in the world of fantasy anything is possible (and "comic book death" is a well worn trope). They could be even setting us up for the "Return of Zargon" and the launch of a whole new line of adventures.

Cristobal (aka "Morcar") has reported rumors before about the idea that Hasbro is going to push HeroQuest into the "D&D World" or somehow try to merge the two franchises together (Hasbro owns both these days), maybe to get people who grew up playing our game to go over to that game (good luck with that, I have little interest in D&D, although I enjoyed some of the video games and the cartoon when I was a kid). But I haven't seen anything official to convince me that's what's going to happen (and I hope it doesn't... if they're going to do a crossover, I'd much rather see it be with Warhammer again, as that would be much more fitting). I predict it would cause a split in the community if they did such a thing. D&D hardcores will stay with D&D, and HeroQuest hardcores will stay with HQ. Fans could always mix them together all along, but many will choose not to. For all we care it is still "loosely based" in the world of Warhammer Fantasy of the late 80's/early 90's, or else our own headcanon worlds.

Many have wondered what they would do next after ATOH and WOM, because those represent the last "box releases" out of the official line of the classic era ('89-'92) apart from the (non-plastic) Adventure Design Kit, Master Edition (GS + extra merc figures and Dark Company Poster) and lots of one off quests that fit better as "free digital" adventures.

If they were to release a big box edition with some extras in it, some will take that as a greedy double-dip (and buy it anyway) while it would fit with other games Hasbro has, where they are constantly releasing new editions and revamps (granted most have a lot less plastic in the box, but consider all the variants of RISK or Axis & Allies out there, and the original never goes away despite all these new editions... and don't get us started on Monopoly).

There was all this talk about "new" expansions following ROTDM. Seems people want it. If people seem like they want something, they will cater to that. So we should be careful what we wish for. If we all say we want a Bard expansion, then a Bard expansion will probably appear at some point. If we all say we want the Japanese edition to come back (please, please) then they will do what needs to be done to make that happen someday... I believe that. Of course if the big bosses say no, then it won't happen, but if they can see dollar signs, I think that will help it along.

I am sure they are watching very carefully the reaction to ATOH and that will help determine what goes into WOM (or if it happens at all). But would Hasbro really be so quick to slaughter the goose that laid the golden eggs? I don't know the sales figures for HQ, etc.

Then again, let's say they really are going to put a "final chapter" on HeroQuest. We've also heard rumors of CoPD coming out, and we've seen notices of this Jungles expansion too (the Abomination expansion previous rumored). Are they really looking for a "final" episode? Even if this is true, they have an out, because they can set other stories before the "final battle" or they can set it after with the bad guy returning or a near identical bad guy taking the spot (a fake out, swerve). Or maybe they're hoping to end on a high note and move on to other things?

Let's say they do that... let's rewind the clock. How many of us who were old enough to play games in 1992 were actually sad that no new expansions were coming out? Sure, some of us who were aware of the Barbarian and Elf packs might have wondered what the Wizard and Dwarf packs were like. But knowing the quality of those previous two, would they really have been so heartbroken to not see further development? I think the fact that we'd have gotten EVERYTHING that was released back in the day in modern format, plus some new stuff (SQT, PoT, even CoPD and the last few things from the Mythic tier like the Druid and the alternate sculpt heroes, even Sir Ragnar and the Witch Lord; the Rogue, Knights and Monk... ROTDM) should satisfy us.

The whole point of HeroQuest is not just to play the quests that the company puts out for us, it's to make your own adventures. That blank quest book is not JUST for the remix when the heroes fail an official quest. It's for making your own adventures as many were doing for the better part of these 30 years (or even just when we were kids). So as long as Hasbro doesn't cease all production, I am perfectly fine with them ending the franchise on a high note and just not putting out any new expansions (until the lure of more money is too great and they go back on any such "promise").

But do they need to blow up the world and give endings for all the heroes (even if such things won't be heeded and acknowledged by many fans)? No, they don't. Just as they don't need to fill in every last detail of the world, they don't need to do this. At the same time, some people do want something like this, and those people would be happy. They want to satisfy the greatest number of fans and of course make money doing it.

So I have a very mixed feelings about some kind of "final battle" with Zargon, though I've imagined how I would handle such a scenario myself on more than one occasion. The adventure continues until you stop playing it, that's that, and no "ending" even an "official" one will stop people from playing.

I have little interest in jumping over to play D&D instead (doesn't mean I wouldn't do a one off game if you invited me to your table, just as if you invited me to your Warhammer Fantasy Battle/40k/Age of Sigmar/Killteam/etc table). But my love of this game is with HeroQuest, and Space Crusade, and to a lesser extent Battle Masters and HeroScape (yes, finally got to play a little of that over the holiday weekend, I'm intrigued, even if I don't plan to spend a lot of money on this).

But not everyone is like us and will play HeroQuest "forever." Not everyone will buy (much less play) every expansion. At least with these remakes they can actually AFFORD do to so, unlike with the classic editions these days of course... at least if as much of the original is preserved as possible, that makes the legacy of HeroQuest more accessible to a new generation, which to me is the biggest reason to bring these back. Otherwise you can find a battered old classic copy (or sell your house to get a sealed one), or print & play, etc. People who have their 30 year old tweaks for this one can still use them. Once they deem that releasing new stuff for HQ is no longer profitable that will be the reason they'll stop doing it. I just hope it doesn't overstay its welcome like some other franchises and put out mediocre stuff just to keep releasing it, piss off fans, and ruin it. If they want to take a hiatus after WOM and call it good, I'm fine with that too, so long as people can still buy affordable copies of the main game.


But to the earlier notion... DOES Wizards of Morcar (I refuse to call it "Wizards of Zargon" unless that is really the official title, which hasn't been proven yet) need a little more tweaking and attention? Yes it does. What matters most are what EU players thought of it back in the day and how they view it now, but a big opinion I've seen is that it was too short, too hard, and more like a box of assets to make your own adventures other than a worthy entry on its own (unlike ATOH which seems to have more nostalgia behind it).

I am not surprised at all, after partaking in the interviews, that the goal would be to expand the quests out to 10 (from the original 5), and since they are adapting the Ogre expansion I'm sure we can expect to see similar tweaks (and even feedback from that one going towards this one) in WOM.