Moving Furniture

[burglekutt]

Re-Editing today 07-04-23 because I was probably drunk when i started this post & you can tell from my blabbering gibberish speak.
I'm tempted to reedit it but would take to long, thanks.

There has to be a thread somewhere on interacting with furniture. I'll throw one out there. For now ill use a system someone else suggested on another thread for handling strength & dexterity which I sorta like.

Roll 2D6. Roll bellow your starting Bpoints (round up) to succeed.

CWarrior/Gargoyle - 9 or less.
Barb/Dwarf, Fimir/Mummy- 8 or less.
Elf/Rogue, Orc/Zombie - 6 or less.
Wiz, Skeleton/Goblin- 4 or less.

Contested Strength rolls to HOLD A DOOR SHUT: Barb (needs an 8 or less) rolls a 6 to hold it shut after running out of the room. This is an action.
Orc (needs a 6 or less) rolls a 3 to force it open on his turn.
The Orc wins the contest because his roll was 3 bellow what he needed, where as the Barb was only 2 bellow what he needed.

Wiz (needs a 4 or less) rolls a 3.
Gargoyle (needs a 9 or less) rolls a 9.
The Wizard wins because he rolled 1 less than he needed. Gargoyle lost because he only rolled what he needed to. The door stays shut till another monster adjacent from the door succeeds in a roll, or the Gargoyle trys next turn.
(The Wizard keeps his original roll while each monster attempts to beat it).
If they ever tie, then the hero wins because more monsters are most likely on their way to make some better rolls.

Using this system, let's get into furniture. Not sure if this is cool but hero's or monsters can climb on to most furniture at a cost of 2 movement? Maybe 3?

The Table, Torture Rack, Bookcase & Weapons Rack can be TIPPED OVER by rolling bellow your BPoints. Alternatively if you climb on to anything but the Weapons Rack, you gain a +2 to your roll that you need to roll under. (This is simply available for weaker characters who don't think they'll make their roll).

TABLE/TORTURE RACK: When Tipped Over, they act as a defensive wall or to funnel enemies. A +1DEF Die to both hero's & monsters fighting through the Table/TortureR.
( Weaker or injured hero's might like this when out numbered or against to powerful of an enemy). Monsters may climb over this for 2Movement as long as there is an empty square to land in.

BOOKCASE/WEAPONS RACK: When TIPPED OVER does 1CD dammage to all under it hero or monster. Regardless Monsters or Hero's now appear on top of the fallen furniture in the square they were on.
Attacking a hero or monster "perched" atop the BookCase is at a -1CD to hit with melee weapons. A monster can climb up there & attack you though.

MOVE FURNITURE: Roll bellow your BPoints. All furniture may be moved 2squares In any direction or you may rotate it 90degrees from one of its corners. Nothing must be in its way to do this though.

All furniture (except the Weapons Rack) provides a +1DEF from non-magical missile attacks when adjacent & hidden behind it. This works for monsters too.

TREASURE CHEST/THRONE: May be moved 2squares as normal or can be thown (half your starting BPoints per square) for a 2ATT.

[JoeAlekber]

Personally, I've found a system that someone else suggested in another thread to be quite useful when it comes to handling strength and dexterity.

[Bareheaded Warrior]

There are a couple of topics already where this is discussed, both moving furniture and moving through and/or over furniture:

Walking over furniture
Incorrectly Played Rules

My personal preference is a simple NO. Furniture is designed to block movement so you can't move it or move through it. There may need to be a special exception for Prince Magnus's Gold, but that quest plays much better if you end it once the heroes have "secured" the treasure room.

And when you are discussing holding a door shut, remember that doors once opened cannot be shut but remain open for the rest of the game, and monsters are unlikely to be holding a door shut against heroes as they don't know that the heroes are there until the heroes open the door...

[burglekutt]

discussing holding a door shut, remember that doors once opened cannot be shut but remain open for the rest of the game,

I never was happy with the 2d6 system for Strength related actions or Brawling because it was to much math for something that should be resolved with a single Die, preferably a single CombatDie.
Similar to your
Barb +3, Dwarf +2, Elf +1, Wizard +0

I had forgotten about "Moving Furniture" all together but now that I settled on this Unarmed Combat system....
You take Four s worth of unarmed damage before losing a BodyPoint.

Gargoyle, Chaos Warrior = 4CDice.
Barbarian/Dwarf/ Fimir, Mummy = 3CDice.
Elf/ Zombie, Orc = 2CDice.
Wizard/ Skeleton, Goblin = 1CDie.

I might as well try to integrate it with Strength/athletic related activities.

HOLD DOOR SHUT
The Wizard opens a door & sees a ChaosWarrior he doesn't want to fight till the other Heros arrive.
He closes the door & rolls 1Skull with his 1CD strength.
It's now Zargons turn & the CWarrior moves to the door & weakly rolls 1Skull with his 4CD strength to force the door open.
Since it's a tie, the door stays shut till Zargons next turn.
The Barb/Dwarf are to far behind but the Elf runs to assist (adjacent to the door/Wizard) & rolls 2Skulls. There are now 3Skulls holding the door shut.
The Wizard does nothing but hold his grip. Now it's Zargons turn.
CWarrior rolls his other 3CD strength & gets 2Skulls more for a total of 3Skulls. Still a tie so the door stays shut.
The Barb finally arrives next to the Wizard & could help hold the door shut, but instead wants some action.
The Elf lets go of the door & readys his Shield & LongSword. The Wizard lets go of the door & takes off running!
The CWarrior opens the door, steps into the hallway & attacks the Elf but realizes its the Heros turn now & the Barbarian is behind him with a battle axe, Checkmate!

Alternate
The Wizard rolls a 1Skull & the CWarrior walks over & rolls 3Skulls yanking the door open & slashes at the Wizard with FOUR Skulls damage!

There are some bugs that elude me though since I'm just now thinking about it but its my alternative to "Peek through Keyhole" which others here on the Forum invented for the Wizard when he's exploring & wants to fight a couple Goblins by himself but isn't sure what's on the other side of the door.
Just thought it would be a cute mechanic to have available if you weren't a fan of Peek through Keyhole.

It does cause me one major problem though, if its not considered an "Action", can the Elf open the door, throw a 2Att Spear & then Roll to hold the door shut? Idk but that would be funny.

A Potion of Strength could give you a Plus +2CD strength for the duration you're holding the door?
Makes me wonder if "Rescue of Sir Ragnar" could require the Heros to hold a door shut thats filled with monsters & its up to the players to decide who stays to hold the door or to get Sir Ragnar out!

The only other thing I can think of for a hero to do when exploring is:
LISTENING
http://forum.yeoldeinn.com/viewtopic.ph ... fa#p125050 from my MindPoint uses thread.

As for Moving Furniture:

The board has various rooms of different shapes and sizes but they are none-the-less fixed, however a Quest designer can use furniture placement to control and limit movement, effectively changing the shape of the room. This is an important 'tool' for Quest design and modifying this rule may break a number of Quests.

This is probably the best reason I've ever heard of but I only see three ways of it being of use to Zargon though:
1# Funnel Hero's into traps.
2# Monsters with missile weapons last longer.
3# Helps the Boss live longer when all his minions are dead.

You could accomplish alot of this with a few well placed open PitTraps or a monster protecting the "missile firing" monster though.

I'd have to see how many rooms I could manipulate in Zargons favor like that before I'm certain that furniture isn't an out right detriment to Zargon given that monsters usually do better when they "swarm" a Hero.

Ive changed my mind about moving furniture though because Hero's could use it to bottleneck monsters & that aint good. Unless it was a spell that could only be used once a Quest like:
Genie?:
A contested MindPoint battle between Zargon & the Wizard over control of furniture? Lol. Could be interesting.

The TABLE
Flipping a Table on its side so that it only takes up 3squares allowing more room for combat seems absolutely reasonable as long as it isn't used to Bottle Neck enemies (Zargon decides which way it lands).
Roll 1 Skull with your "Strength" CombatDice.

Two players standing on the Table seems cool as long as monsters can do it. Wish it added a bonus though.

BOOKCASE
Allowing it to be "tipped over" to injure enemies would be ok as long as it does very weak damage like 1CD attack damage to each & each monster appears in their square on top of the wreckage.
Or no damage but the monsters can't Move this turn do to being stuck in the wreckage?
I see this being used mostly for hilarity & I like that, hopefully not causing to much of a mess though.
Roll 2 Skulls with your "Strength" CombatDice & possibly none of this counts as actions.

[orbit15]

From my experience, having clear rules like the ones you've outlined can streamline the process and make it more enjoyable for everyone involved.

[burglekutt]

From my experience, having clear rules like the ones you've outlined can streamline the process and make it more enjoyable for everyone involved.

I'm trying. Again the reason for disagreement on an issue like this is because of a lack of "mechanisms" already in place that GMs can agree on.
We need to realize that with a game this simple, ANY skill or ability you plan to give a hero (or future hero) needs to be something all heros can do, otherwise you get caught up in compexity like a Thief needing a separate page of skills that only he can do & must memorize (constantly looking at the back of his character sheet) to see what he can do. This slows the game down & adds to much complexity in my opinion.

Here are some skills you can allow every Hero access to.
Disarm Traps:
Dwarf/ Thief- Dont roll a to succeed.
With toolkit- Dont roll a to succeed.
All other heroes- Don't roll a
With toolkit- Don't roll a

If you don't agree "other heros" should be this good at disarming traps:
All other heroes - Don't roll a , to succeed.
With Toolkit - Don't roll a to succeed.

SNEAK/ Suprise:
Could depend on the amount of noise your Armor makes & your skill at Sneaking.
When entering a room or coming around a corner and you see a monster/s, roll a CombatDie to see if you "Suprise" one of them & their back is turned giving you a Plus +1Att to your first swing.
PLATE MAIL: +1Att.
METAL ARMOR: +1Att.
CLOTH/LEATHER: , Wizard, Monk. +1Att.
CLOTH/LEATHER: , Thief +2Att, Hobbit +1Att.

PUSHING past an enemy:
Roll this symbol to succeed because of your size/ agility.
Barbarian, Elf, Wizard-
Dwarf, Thief -
Hobbit, Monk - ,


You see what I'm getting at.
Its easier if you give hero's access to all abilities and leave the very unique abilities up to "Feat/ Action Cards.

Same with the Strength/Dexterity (unarmed) system I got off someone years ago here that I think is the dopest. All hero's are capable of the same feats but at different levels.

Gargoyle/ Chaos Warrior- 4 CD
Barbarian, Dwarf/ Fimir, Mummy- 3 CD.
Elf / Zombie, Orc- 2 CD.
Wizard / Skeleton, Goblin 1 CD.

Kicking open a locked door requires 3 's, this will take the Wizard or Goblin multiple turns to accomplish but the Barbarian or Fimir might get it in one kick.
Tipping over a book shelf 2 's. Flipping a Table out of the way 1 . Lifting a portcullis 3, 5 's? Depending on how long you want it to take.

We will never agree on how to Disarm Traps, backstab, move furniture, climb walls, fist fight, see in the dark, sneak past monsters or ANY OF THAT till we agree on a mechanism where all heros can do it, "but some other heros can do it better".

[Bareheaded Warrior]

We will never agree on how to Disarm Traps, backstab, move furniture, climb walls, fist fight, see in the dark, sneak past monsters or ANY OF THAT till we agree on a mechanism where all heros can do it, "but some other heros can do it better".

For a single, unified system take a look at this post Action Dice

On “sneak”, personally I don’t use it, but in the original game, monsters movement square values were always an even number, which we made use of in homebrew rules as a “hidden” characteristic, half the movement value and you had a measure of initiative/reactions/wits, which could be used to test against in a sneak situation, from quick-witted Goblins (5) to dim-witted Zombies (2). Later developments blurred this even number principle, but you could still round halves down.

As for Moving Furniture:
The 3 ways furniture placement can help you as the EWP that you listed are significant, missile armed monsters, spellcasting monsters and bosses lasting longer can change the outcome of the game, furniture near doorways can limit the use of diagonal attacks through doorways giving you an advantage, furniture placed centrally can split heroes up in a room so that you can swarm one of them.

If you imagine a standard 4x4 room, without furniture, you would need 4 monsters to put 1 layer between your spellcasting or missile armed monster and that layer would only stop the first hero as a second hero could punch through the hole in the wall made by the first hero killing a monster. 8 monsters would be required for a 2 layer and 12 for a 3 layer (and you could replace any monster here with a trap). However placing a wall of monsters between your spellcasting/missile using monster and their target prevents them from attacking with missiles. Monsters may do better when they “swarm” a hero but who is going to move into a room containing 13 monsters?

1 table, 3 monsters and a missile/spellcaster, suitably placed, can achieve a better result, forcing heroes into the room in the first place, preventing your missile/spellcaster from being attacked by the first 3 heroes into the room, and allowing your missile/spellcaster to attack those heroes as they attack your minions

[burglekutt]

For a single, unified system take a look at this post Action Dice

Your Four Dice system is reasonable, my only problem with it is the Strength/ fist fighting aspect. Barb =4, Dwarf =3, Elf =2, Wiz =1 Roll a to succeed.

The odds of the Wizard making a strike or defending against a strike are to low.
We had something similar with the idea of rolling a single CombatDie wherein the Barb & Dwarf rolls to hit, Elf rolls to hit, Wiz rolls to hit, but the out come is close to the same where in the Wiz could waste many turns not hitting or Defending, though in real life this is completely reasonable!

By the way, I'm sure you figured out what your Monsters Strength/ Fist fighting abilities are along with this? I'm interested.

On “sneak”, personally I don’t use it,

I never did create a good system for this & invented stuff on the fly when a player wanted to be a Thief. A discussion needs to take place though about the pros and cons of a Thief hero being able to pass through (possibly multiple) rooms unseen and exposing the maps lay out (ruining the suprise!).

The few times I allowed hero's to bypass monsters though was enjoyable because it allowed me to bring those monsters out to fight whenever I wanted, or I would say "they are searching for you" to keep the heroes moving, and in the end i could chase the heros till they get to the exit. This is a great discussion though.

As for Moving Furniture:The 3 ways furniture placement can help you as the EWP that you listed are significant,

Yeah this is a pain in the ass. Everyone rightfully wants to interact with the furniture in some way, and there's only a few:
#1 move the furniture.
#2 find treasure in it.
#3 dismantle it for parts? Lol
Remember when somebody on here wanted to use the furniture to make a "wooden Tank" that a Hobbit would drive in that had BodyPoints? I love crap like that!

Your argument is sound though and I could counteract it with contested Strength rolls on the monsters part, but that sounds a bit funny that a Barbarian battles a Fimir for whether a Table gets flipped out of the way or not lol. Actually that sounds really fun so I might stick with it:)
Not sure though and am 50/50 about the whole thing. Could depend on the players though if they got a kick out of f,n with the board in general assuming they were new to roleplaying.
Player " Can I tip the Bookcase over for an advantage? "
EVP "Crap, I gotta think of ways to keep these idiots entertained".

[Bareheaded Warrior]

The Strength/ fist fighting aspect

Maybe I wasn't clear on this the Action Dice (Walrus) mechanism is designed to be a single, consistent, easy to learn mechanism that handles every "action" that isn't combat, damage, movement, so the application of strength under this mechanism would be to cover situations such as forcing open jammed doors or lifting a portcullis. Unarmed combat is clearly combat and is handled using the combat rules. The only difference between armed combat where a weapon is used and unarmed combat where no weapon is used is that in armed combat you use the attack value of the weapon, in unarmed combat you use an attack value of 1 die only. I don't feel that heroes are unarmed often enough to justify anything more complicated than that. Some feel that an unarmed Wizard should be less effective than an unarmed Dwarf for example, but under armed rules a Wizard and Dwarf equipped with the same weapon roll the same number of attack dice, so why not when they are armed only with their fists?

Note: In my "interpretation" of HQ, the extra Attack Die that the Barbarian gets is considered an intrinsic trait of the character and is not dependent on weapons or equipment, like the Trap Handling capability of the Dwarf or the spell casting abilities of the Elf and Wizard, so the Barbarian would sill roll 2 attack dice even if unarmed.

The Thief aspect

HQ is a group game, so introducing a character type whose "strength" is to be able to sneak passed enemies undetected whilst the rest of the party stand back and watch doing nothing (or does the armour clad Dwarf clank his way alongside the sneaking thief?) doesn't really work in my opinion.

Other "thief" aspects such as lock picking already sit more comfortably with our dextrous, mechanically minded Dwarf and the boosted combat of the thief that some have suggested also don't sit well with me. I get that a sneaky thief might be able to infiltrate a location undetected, on his own or in the company of other thieves, and assassinate a sleeping boss, but it is the infiltration that is the skill, killing some who is still sleeping doesn't require any special skills, even the Wizard could manage that if he could get into the location undetected.

The moving furniture aspect

If you have a group of players who regularly want to disassemble furniture and build barricades and such like then I would suggest that they are playing the wrong game (try Minecraft). I appreciate that may sound flippant, but individual games focus on different niches, HQs strengths are its simplicity (for kids, families or as a "beer and pretzels" game for adults) and its niche as an adventure board game rather than a fully fledged RPG. I'm all for making tweaks that add flavour, fun and such without significantly adding to the complexity is fun and rewarding but trying to develop it into something it isn't is making a new game entirely, which is fine if that is what you want to do, but isn't HQ.

[Kurgan]

Other than moving treasure chests, I've had the occasional piece of furniture that "Slides aside to reveal" a secret door (can't recall which official quests but some have that), and since I use an Evil Wizard Deck homebrew, I get the occasional "mimic monster."

Interesting stuff! The instructions say that monsters can't move treasure chests (though if they could steal the chests from heroes or take them to another location that could really make the game tougher even if they moved at half speed!).