THE SPIRIT QUEEN'S TORMENT discussion

[wallydubbs]

So I've been absent from the forums for a while and I just recently got around to looking through this quest book and a lot of glaring problems stick out to me:
Although adequately words from Mentor are at the start of the booklet, the heroes are quickly passed off to Silvanna. It seems more like an exchange of ownership at this point.
The heroes are told that the mixture of elemental magic and chaos magic should not be possible... whomever wrote this Quest book was not familiar with the fire mage in the original game system. Fire counts as an element, right? Even tempest and sleep spells are used by chaos sorcerers. This error went by unnoticed.
The heroes start by trying to rescue the orc Sigill, and originally I thought this would tie into the new orc bard character... but alas it does not because Sigill passes you on to even yet another Orc that you must search out, Udren. Neither of these fit the bill of the orc bard, but someone added later on in a quest note that if a hero dies the orc Bard can take over.
The story of the orcs become more convoluted: now I can buy that there are a few spies among the orcs working for the empire. But then the orcs are shown in a favorable light in the Drowned Temple, where it appears that they've been working against Zargon. Now I understand that zargon's the commander of all chaos, now called dread, and that this is not synonymous with orcs. But I was under the impression that the orcs made up a great majority of Zargon's army. By the sound of it they are a neutral party yet they are the ones that the heroes kill the most! I feel some clarification is needed here, but nor do I think I will get any.

Next, there's the underwater quest, which just doesn't really jive well with me... Other people may like this, but I'm not one of them. The other factor in this Quest is that heroes lose mind points when attacked instead of body points. If most of this is a spiritual battle, I think it went unacknowledged by the developers that the number of defense dice that the heroes get may not be the same as if it was a physical attack. How does the armor help defend here?
There are also numerous errors in the quest maps themselves, such as areas that should be shaded or not and missing wall tiles. Some treasure chests are trapped but not highlighted, there's even one Quest note in Flooded Catacombs about treasure chest D that says there's a magical trap on it, but it does not specify what this magical trap does. Also the door to the Spirit Queen in the final quest is missing altogether.

Halfway through the Quest pack the heroes obtain artifacts, such as the Talisman of Lore, which they may already have in their possession. Actually most of these artifacts the heroes should already have. But when we get to the 4 towers of elements the questions of "if" the hero has this item is thrown out the window. I'm led to wonder if the heroes should just play this as an alternative to the game system.

In the Spire of Spirits there are multiple falling block traps at the very start of the quest that could potentially trap the heroes. The story of the Spirit Queen is also hard for me to understand too, how did Zargon corrupt her spirit if she was dead? Is she therefore undead? Maybe I'm just not understanding.

There are probably other problems I missed too.

In fact the only good thing that struck me from this Quest pack is that it really hit home that the undead don't mix with the green skins. Not that it's a terrible quest pack but there are just a lot of errors and unexplained holes in the story. I guess I hoped for better.

[Pancho]

I agree Wallydubs. I think this quest book is a real mess if I’m completely honest. The author in my opinion was not at all interested in tying in his story with the existing universe.

[cornixt]

Makes me wonder if the HQ redo wasn't going to contain the original quests at some point and this was meant to replace them as a more cohesive single storyline. The conflict with the existing background/quests wouldn't matter if that was the case.

[Kurgan]

I just see it as another opportunity to acquire more Artifacts! In my mini review I thought of it as designed to bring veteran players back into the game after a long absence. We are a rare breed of hardcore players, many folks out there love HQ but hadn't played in three decades. If Zargon was losing his grip on the Orcs and Mentor was needing "diviners" to help him out in his later years, that kind of speaks to the idea of it taking place late in time as well. Presumably Mentor hired the four heroes and they went on to complete their mission and defeat Zargon but maybe it took many years or even multiple generations of heroes were needed. Baker's quest was re-affirming the champion status of the four which would be an odd thing if they just got done winning not so long ago.

Intriguing speculation about SQT. A behind the scenes book on the making of the original and of the remake would be interesting to read. In the end whatever was planned, I'm glad we got a more or less straight up reprint (with a few odd replacements that can be much more easily glossed over than a complete rewrite).

[SirRick]

I finally read the story for this quest book, and I am excited to play it. I really like the vibe the opening gives compared to the Crypt of Perpetual Darkness. It just doesn’t seem believable that the heroes could be wandering around the city more concerned about getting cold drinks while the orcs and goblins are running amok. We know the little gnome is killed almost immediately right in front of the heroes. What else is going on in the town? Probably a lot worse.

In The Spirit Queen’s Torment, I like the introduction of Silvana as a guest-Mentor for this book. Not only does she employ the Orc Bard Sigill, she takes Udren as an apprentice as well. Maybe it doesn’t fit established behavior for the people involved, but I like how she is open-minded and will to take other such people under her wing.

The best part of this book however is the sheer number of artifacts. If you get a double of an artifact (and it doesn’t mention “unless you have it already”) I would just change the name slightly. Like in a quest book I made made as a kid suggested that Borin had several brothers (Corin, Dorin, etc) who all wore armor forged by their father Aorin.

[Stoner81]

Does anybody have the quest notes for each quest by any chance?



Stoner81.

[Maalicia_Ironhoof]

So I've been absent from the forums for a while and I just recently got around to looking through this quest book and a lot of glaring problems stick out to me:
Although adequately words from Mentor are at the start of the booklet, the heroes are quickly passed off to Silvanna. It seems more like an exchange of ownership at this point.
The heroes are told that the mixture of elemental magic and chaos magic should not be possible... whomever wrote this Quest book was not familiar with the fire mage in the original game system. Fire counts as an element, right? Even tempest and sleep spells are used by chaos sorcerers. This error went by unnoticed.
The heroes start by trying to rescue the orc Sigill, and originally I thought this would tie into the new orc bard character... but alas it does not because Sigill passes you on to even yet another Orc that you must search out, Udren. Neither of these fit the bill of the orc bard, but someone added later on in a quest note that if a hero dies the orc Bard can take over.
The story of the orcs become more convoluted: now I can buy that there are a few spies among the orcs working for the empire. But then the orcs are shown in a favorable light in the Drowned Temple, where it appears that they've been working against Zargon. Now I understand that zargon's the commander of all chaos, now called dread, and that this is not synonymous with orcs. But I was under the impression that the orcs made up a great majority of Zargon's army. By the sound of it they are a neutral party yet they are the ones that the heroes kill the most! I feel some clarification is needed here, but nor do I think I will get any.

Next, there's the underwater quest, which just doesn't really jive well with me... Other people may like this, but I'm not one of them. The other factor in this Quest is that heroes lose mind points when attacked instead of body points. If most of this is a spiritual battle, I think it went unacknowledged by the developers that the number of defense dice that the heroes get may not be the same as if it was a physical attack. How does the armor help defend here?
There are also numerous errors in the quest maps themselves, such as areas that should be shaded or not and missing wall tiles. Some treasure chests are trapped but not highlighted, there's even one Quest note in Flooded Catacombs about treasure chest D that says there's a magical trap on it, but it does not specify what this magical trap does. Also the door to the Spirit Queen in the final quest is missing altogether.

Halfway through the Quest pack the heroes obtain artifacts, such as the Talisman of Lore, which they may already have in their possession. Actually most of these artifacts the heroes should already have. But when we get to the 4 towers of elements the questions of "if" the hero has this item is thrown out the window. I'm led to wonder if the heroes should just play this as an alternative to the game system.

In the Spire of Spirits there are multiple falling block traps at the very start of the quest that could potentially trap the heroes. The story of the Spirit Queen is also hard for me to understand too, how did Zargon corrupt her spirit if she was dead? Is she therefore undead? Maybe I'm just not understanding.

There are probably other problems I missed too.

In fact the only good thing that struck me from this Quest pack is that it really hit home that the undead don't mix with the green skins. Not that it's a terrible quest pack but there are just a lot of errors and unexplained holes in the story. I guess I hoped for better.

For me this is the worst quest packs in existence, it is so terribly put together with so many holes as you've pointed out.

Big ones for me are:

The story is crap, all of the points you mention make this so flimsy, and introduces the concept of "good" orcs, which as a Tolkien nerd (and by consequence most fantasy of the time the original HQ came out) makes this a massive circus act.

chronologically - this is quite early on (main game, KK, Prophecy of Telor, then this) and there is so much missed opportunity for new and exciting artifacts, instead it re-uses ones the heroes have already acquired only 3 packs prior.

every aspect of it seems like it was bashed out over a weekend, drinking a case of wine and with no playtesting - if not, then the person that digitized it was!

It seems like a very slap dash effort from AH to quickly throw a bunch of mixed ideas into a quest book to establish a new lore to quickly deviate from the original's roots in the Old World. They could have easily genericized so much to not mention GW properties but not ostracize the original audience.

The current AH team are also very clearly influenced by modern properties like WOW and failed to immerse themselves in the cultural aspects that made the lore and design of the original such a winner (it in itself was hugely influenced by the Fighting Fantasy books by GW founders Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone).

Don't get me wrong, I love that it is back in print and there have been some great things about it, but they have missed the mark on a lot of it for me, I'm essentially buying everything for the sole purpose of use in my own quests.

Also why does big old all-seeing mentor, with his Loretome need diviners?! hahaha

I have considered re-writing the entire thing to be in-line with the original but it really isn't worth the time!

just my 2 cents anyway

[Kurgan]

Rumors, rumors, and more rumors... thanks to the guys on HeroQuestFans Discord for reporting this a few days ago! While we were in the midst of Rise of the Dread Moon mania with the spoilers and unboxings, I got a few posts that I neglected to really look at, and here we go...

https://www.reddit.com/r/HQhomebrew/comments/151pltn/confirmed_pre_orders_with_my_local_game_stoer/

Lord-Drucifer's post is filled with misspellings (sorry mate), but his information can be verified at least when it comes to the local CA store. If they posted false info it would be easy to confirm or deny it, though it seems they have removed the listing from their website, but that doesn't mean it's false necessarily just perhaps they got in trouble for posting it too early.

After Prophecy of Telor it was a foregone conclusion that the other Mythic sets would come out and the only other one that we got any hint might have trouble was Joe Mangianello's Crypt of Perpetual Darkness (I heard this from Encarmine but Amalgamash actually posted about it so I think it's okay to say that here, in theory if he signs off or whatever is required then it comes out too I imagine since people really wanted that dragon! and though that particular stretch goal was not met we still got it along with the alternate gargoyle that wasn't technically reached by haslab pledges back then!).

"Against the Ogre Horde" (EU remake that they have long hinted at) and something called "Path of the Wandering Monk" (for $23.99, a bit pricey for a mere Hero Collection if that's all it is, rather than a box KK/ROTWL size) are also coming out under the HeroQuest label, according to him. Could the latter be my dreamt of re-imagining of the Bard as a "reformed Orc" Cleric? I can dream...

Thanks to Virg who first posted it, also covertnerd (Lee), SteveRS2000, Malcadon, seekhashem and Blayze for talking it up. Anybody else have any other info before that page went down?

[LucaRocks]

I am so glad I am skipping SQT with my group. Especially now that's it being re-released. Maybe they will tinker with it and make it a better overall experience.

[wallydubbs]

I was thinking about skipping this one too, mainly because I'm not fond of the storyline and find it inconsistent with Hero Quest lore.

I started out a campaign with the Female Barbarian, Druid, MotM Elf and Warlock, but the Elf and Warlock were killed in the Trial. Since then the Female Elf and Female Wizard joined the group, but the Wizard didn't last long, being killed by a Wandering Monster in Lair of the Orc Warlord. The Female Elf has been with the group since, but the Wizard was replaced with the Male Rogue, who lasted for some time before dying in Keller's Keep, only to be replaced by the Female Dwarf. That group survived Prophecy of Telor and Return of the Witch Lord, so I thought about just jumping straight to Frozen Horror with this group, but I'm aware of how perilous that quest pack is.

However I remember reading through Spirit Queen's Torment that many of the previous artifacts can be claimed in this quest pack and therefore decided to play through it with a new group, so I would have suitable replacements for Frozen Horror in case the original group lost someone. So I returned to the hero pool and randomly drew the Frozen Horror Barbarian, the Elderly (Mentor) Wizard, the Bard and the Male Barbarian, but I didn't want to throw two of the same hero types together and drew again, this time getting the Female Rogue. This was unfortunate as only one of the heroes can wear armor, technically so can the Bard, but he loses a defense in doing so. This group had to be much more cautious and rely on offensive measures.

I've already gone through the first 6 Quests and not having someone in the group that can disarm traps is a huge hindrance. Upon having the chance the heroes bought the Rogue a Bandolier, which includes a tool kit, but she only has half a chance at getting it right, so I am missing the Dwarf a bit. There have also been multiple close calls along the way: Red Sonia nearly died in the first quest, the Rogue needed multiple healing spells and potions along the way.
I was very confused about Quest 2, as the whole outer halls were open but unnecessary; in Quest 5, one or two doors were missing, as there was an orc and goblin in a room that had no entrance or exit.

The quest pack isn't too difficult once the heroes start getting armor and healing potions, but I can tell it was a poor draw on heroes, I probably should've just let there be 2 Barbarians. I may need to put armor on the Bard, preferably Borin's Armor if that's used in this quest pack.

Still I find it weird I haven't ran a quest with any of the original characters yet.