Ye Olde Inn

by **iKarith** » April 23rd, 2021, 6:56 am

I'm gonna ignore both expansions and 3D printing for the moment. This is definitely not an attempt to cheap out on my part—I've got two copies of the HQ game system (and then some), and I'm on record that if Hasbro is actually willing to sell the reprint to people who didn't join the crowdfunding after filling those … gimme two base sets and at least one copy of every expansion you people are willing to print. The stupid orc bard can stay in the box, it's parts if nothing else.

That said … even if you can order the reprint from the Pulse website for years to come, that will not last forever. And honestly it looks like some eBay sellers are getting more stupid and ridiculous by the day, with now incomplete copies with buy-it-nows for north of $300. At some point … no.

So assuming you haven't just got a pile of STL files handy, where does one get 35 minis of the appropriate types for a fair price? At least six goblins, at least eight orcs, with one of those looking different than the others, the appropriate skeletons, a couple zombies, a couple mummies, four armored warriors, a necromancer, a gargoyle, and … whatever you want to replace fimir, I mean, cyclopian lizards just don't exist at this point. And of course the heroes!

The closest I've found (and it's still a bit far from the mark) is a Mantic GM Dungeon Starter Kit Terrain Crate. It's $99 and it's got minis and scatter terrain aplenty. It's got your four heroes, it's got greenskins and undeads (but not enough of them), and it's got a bunch of other things that aren't really gonna fit into the game. Oh, and it's got a lot of the classic furniture, but not enough doors (and they're all closed), and … yeah.

If it were a better mix of the right things or could be easily supplemented to be, $99 isn't a bad way to go, but it's a bit far off the mark to be what we want. I should make a video about that, I've got one kicking around.

Is there better, with long-term availability?

Either wait and hope it enters wider production (as the pledger copies increase in price on ebay) or get somebody here who has buyer's remorse to sell it to you virtually at cost (might cost a bit more for shipping depending upon where it's coming from).

If you want to replicate the remake set perfectly it will probably cost you more than the mythic tier sold for, unless you're using cheaper materials, is going to be my guess. It all depends upon what you want. The content of the new quests will be known soon enough...

My honest opinion is that if you love Hero Quest and you have 2 classic sets already, then you currently own the "best," and the rest is just confetti to sprinkle on top. I pledged, because I was supporting what I (hoped or thought based on evidence available at the time) that it would not be a betrayal of the core content (like so many other nostalgic remakes). While a few small things I disagreed with, I felt the overall effort was worthwhile. If it never gets sold beyond this then they're being foolish, but it will be what it will be. Many of us only ever cared about the prospect of "New Stephen Baker quests" believing that he would retain some core insight, some purity of the original spirit of the game. But as we all know, it's possible even for the "creator" (setting aside the debates over how involved he really was in the final analysis) of a franchise to break with the fans on some artistic choices. For all we know those new quests will be terrible or forgettable.

Or they might be awesome. But in any case there's some sense that they will be unique. I think they'd be much more interesting if they were from some dusty old notebook from 1988 or something, but we know they were brand new creations done recently within any limitations imposed upon him by the current company. Still, we were curious... so we pledged. The hype got us.

And some people just wanted a copy of a game they had long ago sold/lost, but really most of us who wanted HeroQuest have found a way to get our hands on it long before then. We never had to wait for Hasbro to churn out a new edition (5 or 6 months to wait still... something like that).

Yes, there are many like yourself who were like "wait... what... there was a fundraiser... Hero Quest is back, huh???" and if the Pledge campaign was the only chance to get it, you're "screwed."

After all, Hasbro has already been paid for sets sold. When somebody scalps the boxes they purchased on ebay, Hasbro/Avalon Hill doesn't see a dime of that. Used copies don't enrich the creators.

So if they don't sell it through the website, or game shops or whatever, they simply lose all those people as potential customers. They're rich enough they can afford to lose money if all they're trying to do is sprinkle some sugar on the top of the "collector/hoarder" community. Think about it... way more copies of the classic Hero Quest were sold (and still exist) than the "new" remake sets that will be produced, especially if they only sell a handful of overstock once the pledge drive is fulfilled. I keep saying "they'd be foolish..." "if they want to make money" "if they understand what they have" "if they care about their customer base" but that's assuming a lot. Some naysayers on here have stated that Hasbro "always" or "never" does certain things and we can expect that very few people outside the pledge drive will be able to buy the game, which implies it will be scalper territory, so if they're right I feel for you and anyone else who wanted this, and its Hasbro's fault for keeping it such a low level thing. If they only wanted to sell it to a few convention-going collectors and ebay scalpers, then it will be mission accomplished.. if they're right. The remake will be worth more than the original in terms of dollars!

My sense is you'll get your chance to get your hands on it. You might not like what you get or what you "have" to pay to get it, but if you want, you'll be able to. The Question I have is "why." You have to ask yourself honestly, why.

If you already have the real thing, I mean...

And I don't know about others.. when some people see a shrink wrapped pristine copy of Hero Quest, they want to rip it open and start playing it. Me, I don't want that. I want a beat up copy that I can lovingly "restore" to a respectable/playable condition because that what I did with our old family copy that had been in "mothballs" for about a decade after being "heavily used" in our youth. If I had a perfect, unopened copy of the game, my temptation would be to NOT open it, and then what's the point? It's a game it's meant to be played.

Do you want to know if the new Remake will be "worth it" (whatever "it" is)? Then wait for the Inn unboxing. Some of us on the forums (and probably some paid shills elsewhere) will be doing that and answering questions. So you can decide for yourself if you want to return it. I don't know what the FB group will do and I don't care... they can do what they like. But I know some of us will sacrifice a refund to see if others want a refund. Any returned sets will be overstock that can be snapped up by ebay scalpers.. and any "opened" non-returnable sets will either be gifted away or perhaps some Inn member will pay to have it shipped to them instead. We'll see what happens. Or maybe it will be so awesome that nobody will want to part with it. But at least we helped.

And I know somewhere there is a scalper saying "what business is it of yours" and I will say sure, if I was starving and my grandma needed an operation and my selling an overpriced box of plastic to some nerd online was the way to get us out of that emergency, I would probably do it too. But I have no plans to scalp anything, it just seems like anti-fandom. I'd rather sell it off or gift it to someone who could appreciate what it is... give it a "good home" where it would be "loved" (ie: used as intended).

If Hasbro does a full detailed exhaustive nerdy unboxing (doubtful) before the boxes reach our doorsteps then none of it will be necessary. We can just ship it right back for a refund or hand it off, no questions asked. After all it states in the fine print you have 90 DAYS from receipt to return your UNOPENED game to Hasbro for a refund.

So you may be thinking "I have a fear of missing out... I know this is going to be awesome and I have GOT to have it!" but don't be so sure. Wait for delivery day and we'll help you decide.

Maybe in that process someone will be like "I don't want this anymore" and sell it to you at cost (shipping may vary). But then, by then maybe you won't want it anymore either?

by **cornixt** » April 23rd, 2021, 12:53 pm

by **Kurgan** » April 23rd, 2021, 2:05 pm

I love reaper bones (a search for "iconic" reveals a lot of particularly cool figure for heroes/bosses). Different art style but I've found many minis in their line that I have re-purposed as heroquest figures. You could outfit an entire Game System with their minis (cost you probably $200). Have not bought a single metal mini from them, all plastic (flexible polymer; and a few "black" figures which are just a stiffer gray plastic very different from the materials used in classic HQ).

Big list of Reaper plastic minis I used for reconstructing the Expansions (many pics in the same thread)

by **lestodante** » April 23rd, 2021, 6:01 pm

they probably will priint 20-25.000 copies (3.700.000 / 150) approssimatively.

by **iKarith** » April 23rd, 2021, 7:50 pm

Kurgan wrote:My advice... with lots of rants and digressions but I get to the point eventually (hopefully)...

Either wait and hope it enters wider production (as the pledger copies increase in price on ebay) or get somebody here who has buyer's remorse to sell it to you virtually at cost (might cost a bit more for shipping depending upon where it's coming from).

If you want to replicate the remake set perfectly it will probably cost you more than the mythic tier sold for, unless you're using cheaper materials, is going to be my guess. It all depends upon what you want. The content of the new quests will be known soon enough...

I think cornixt better understood what I was going for here.

If I can't get the new Hasbro stuff unless it be by paying $STUPID on eBay, I won't be getting it. I'll order the stuff they sell on Pulse or otherwise to tell them that yes, I want them to actually support and develop HeroQuest again. Separately from D&D would be ideal, but if they further integrate the two, I mean whatever, it's still parts like I said. I much prefer the HQ combat mechanic because it more reflects actual combat which is short and ends suddenly. Working HQ into D&D will start introducing D&D mechanics and advancement most likely … and I'm not really interested so much.

Kurgan wrote:My honest opinion is that if you love Hero Quest and you have 2 classic sets already, then you currently own the "best," and the rest is just confetti to sprinkle on top. I pledged, because I was supporting what I (hoped or thought based on evidence available at the time) that it would not be a betrayal of the core content (like so many other nostalgic remakes). While a few small things I disagreed with, I felt the overall effort was worthwhile. If it never gets sold beyond this then they're being foolish, but it will be what it will be. Many of us only ever cared about the prospect of "New Stephen Baker quests" believing that he would retain some core insight, some purity of the original spirit of the game. But as we all know, it's possible even for the "creator" (setting aside the debates over how involved he really was in the final analysis) of a franchise to break with the fans on some artistic choices. For all we know those new quests will be terrible or forgettable.

Or they might be awesome. But in any case there's some sense that they will be unique. I think they'd be much more interesting if they were from some dusty old notebook from 1988 or something, but we know they were brand new creations done recently within any limitations imposed upon him by the current company. Still, we were curious... so we pledged. The hype got us.

Of course I do!

Like Biff's Dungeon Crawl, HQ would ultimately be pretty expensive to reproduce or source in its entirety all at once. For the moment, the best way to get the appropriate minis and bits and bobs to play HeroQuest is to buy the game.

In the future, people who miss out now on the reprint (assuming it'll be gettable for awhile) and haven't got the original game—be it people who once did, or are just getting into it … The original might no longer be a reasonable option. Arguably, it's not a reasonable option now unless you remember the original fondly and are maybe willing to recondition a few parts.

We have ways to get the cards made reasonably enough for a one-off. The board a person can make a number of ways and at a number of price points, take your pick. (I think the one I'm using for my modular board will turn out to be very affordable if made into a fixed, full-size board, but we'll see. You can spend less or a lot more, that's for sure.) Furniture shouldn't be too much of a big deal with papercraft and cardstock. Doors sounds like a job for standees on the cheap end or suitable doors and archways exist for D&D (or they can be made easily enough.)

What's ultimately left? Dice and minis. You can just use standard D6 to play HQ. I mean, the combat dice are fun, but it's not like you need weird equivalence tables like you do for say Smallworld or Mice and Mystics (to be actually HQ related because M&M is HQ related!) And there's ways to get those too if you really feel like you need them.

That leaves minis. There's nothing special about the HQ minis (except the fimir), aside from having a particular art style peculiar to Warhammer at the time and being rather low-detail even by the standards of the day for metal minis due to casting techniques of the day. They're just goblins, orcs, undead, evil warriors, etc. The question is where one gets enough of the right things for a price that doesn't exceed what HQ is going for on eBay by much, once you factor in obtaining the other components needed to play.

Reaper's 3 for $6-7 for things like orcs and skeletons seems like a good place to start. Like I said, Mantic's Terrain Crate Dungeon Starter Set sounded like a good source since it's got just about all the HQ furniture as well (and then some) but it's not enough of the right minis, honestly.

And yeah, Hasbro's new quests may or may not suck. If they do, *shrug* If they don't, they'll be ported to the original game styles. Actually, they'll be ported whether Hasbro likes it or not. Frankly the community at large has spent most of the past 30 years not giving an actual crap about Hasbro and they've spent just about as long not giving a crap about us. I don't see that changing. :lol:

I'm a little different, wearing multiple hats as it were. On one hand I'm absolutely giving no Fs about their Copyright like the rest of the community and working slowly on archiving as much as I can for the future.

If you want to carefully reproduce all of the components from printable-quality scans create all the chipboard pieces, etc … STL files reproducing minis that would be indistinguishable from the original on the table if you painted them alike making everything to reach or exceed the original quality, whatever it costs to do so … knock yourself out! I intend you to have the ability to do it. I don't know that anyone ever will. The original and I guess now the fan mods that are disappearing too.

Because I can, because this stuff means something to me, because it's a bit of history that can and ought to be preserved, and ultimately because Hasbro couldn't stop me if they actually gave enough of a crap to try.

On the other hand, I'm thinking about producing an absolutely legally kosher set of rules that are compatible with HQ to the point you could fill in a few blanks and play the game we love with them, but are free and open source. NOT because I want to "steal" the game or somehow impede Hasbro from making money with it. In fact, I want to give them my money as well, if they're prepared to take it, as I said.

But if someone wants to produce their own mods, their own quests, the kind of stuff the community has been making for years and put them up on Drive Thru RPG or whatever for a few bucks … Legally speaking they can't. Not with Hasbro's rules and game. No reason they couldn't with my rules though. And if it just so happens to work with HQ, well, anyone who has the game has what they need to play it, and maybe some seasoned heroes to play it with.

Or if they want to make a computer game … or anything else for that matter. If you don't touch Hasbro's IP otherwise, there's no reason you can't.

I never will. I mean, I won't ever attach a price tag to anything I create with it. Hypocrisy only goes so far. I can't blatantly and knowingly just ignore Hasbro's IP rights, even on something they've spent most of 30 years not giving a crap about … and then expect my own to be respected. And so I don't. I'll do my best to create something independent you can use however you want. I may use it myself, but anything I make with it will be as open source as the rules.

Kurgan wrote:And some people just wanted a copy of a game they had long ago sold/lost, but really most of us who wanted HeroQuest have found a way to get our hands on it long before then. We never had to wait for Hasbro to churn out a new edition (5 or 6 months to wait still... something like that).

Yes, there are many like yourself who were like "wait... what... there was a fundraiser... Hero Quest is back, huh???" and if the Pledge campaign was the only chance to get it, you're "screwed."

After all, Hasbro has already been paid for sets sold. When somebody scalps the boxes they purchased on ebay, Hasbro/Avalon Hill doesn't see a dime of that. Used copies don't enrich the creators.

That's true, they don't.

The first time I was really impacted by scalpers was not long ago, actually—the NES mini. I've got a real NES right here *tap tap* and some original carts that are fairly valuable today. But I loved the little mini. I mean, it's essentially a Raspberry Pi in a box and I've got several Pis unused and literally every NES ROM anyone has ever produced. I don't NEED the mini, but I wanted one. And, HEY NINTENDO, I'M STILL MAD!, I could never find one in Portland, not even after they extended production and were "making sure there were enough of them out there". Nowhere had them, nobody would take a pre-order, it was unobtanium. Make my own? Trivially! But I wanted to buy the mini… I might still from someone who had it, has enjoyed it, and is now selling it at some point.

But scalpers tried to drive the price to insane heights by artificially restricting the supply. Pure greed. I will NEVER even give those guys retail for one. No, they need to take a loss! If everyone decided these folks needed to be burned on the deal (y'know, since we can't actually light them on fire for it), maybe they'd learn a lesson. Sadly, most people will just give them what they demand. Human nature I guess.

I'd have paid Nintendo for one. Might still buy one from someone who enjoyed it for a time, but is selling it down the line. Might buy one if Nintendo brings it back to market without stupidity this time. But I don't need a NES mini to play those or thousands of other games.

Just like I don't need Hasbro's re-release of HQ. I'll give them my money if they'll take it. I might give someone a fair price if they won't. But anyone trying to drive the price up because "RARE" because they bought 37 copies and will be doling them out at $500 a pop? Screw 'em. I still have my classic set. Eventually I'll have the means to print what I haven't got for the expansions too.

And I'm trying to sort out the best way to improvise a set of what's needed to play the game so when the only copies out there are impossibly priced because they're genuinely rare collector's items along with scalpers' get rich quick copies and people's moldy, broken into pieces partial attic/garage/dumpster finds … it'll still be possible to get back into the game, or maybe into it for the first time.

Kurgan wrote:So if they don't sell it through the website, or game shops or whatever, they simply lose all those people as potential customers. They're rich enough they can afford to lose money if all they're trying to do is sprinkle some sugar on the top of the "collector/hoarder" community. Think about it... way more copies of the classic Hero Quest were sold (and still exist) than the "new" remake sets that will be produced, especially if they only sell a handful of overstock once the pledge drive is fulfilled. I keep saying "they'd be foolish..." "if they want to make money" "if they understand what they have" "if they care about their customer base" but that's assuming a lot. Some naysayers on here have stated that Hasbro "always" or "never" does certain things and we can expect that very few people outside the pledge drive will be able to buy the game, which implies it will be scalper territory, so if they're right I feel for you and anyone else who wanted this, and its Hasbro's fault for keeping it such a low level thing. If they only wanted to sell it to a few convention-going collectors and ebay scalpers, then it will be mission accomplished.. if they're right. The remake will be worth more than the original in terms of dollars!

My sense is you'll get your chance to get your hands on it. You might not like what you get or what you "have" to pay to get it, but if you want, you'll be able to. The Question I have is "why." You have to ask yourself honestly, why.

If you already have the real thing, I mean...

I do. But it's kinda not about what I have or don't. My money's on the table (or will be when the time comes) if Hasbro wants it. If they don't … as you said, I've already got the real thing.

What about someone happening along in 10 years' time? Will they have it? I mean, it's one thing to say "oh, it'll still be available in some form" but … the last HQ sets were sold in 1996 or 1997. It's already getting kinda stupid what some people think it's worth.

"Who's gonna suddenly become interested in 10 years if they never played it before?"

You might say that about a personal computer from 1977. In 2019, a 13 year old carefully designed and produced a replica PCB. I'm not talking some moderately simplistic four-chip clone, I'm talking a full Rev 0 integer BASIC Apple II PCB populated with all the original chips it would have in 1977.

Kurgan wrote:And I don't know about others.. when some people see a shrink wrapped pristine copy of Hero Quest, they want to rip it open and start playing it. Me, I don't want that.

I have a basically unused copy of AHQ. It's a collectable and will probably not see the table. Partly because it's not the game I played, and partly because if I haven't used it yet, there's not much point in it now. It might get sold to someone who can use it more than I can. It's not sealed, it's just not been used. I asked about Allied HeroQuest on another thread and got no replies. That'd actually use my AHQ set and I'd like to preserve a copy of those rules … but no reply probably means it doesn't exist anymore. History lost.

Both copies of HQ I own needed restoring to be ready for the table. I really need to get my other copy. *sigh*

Kurgan wrote:[…]

So you may be thinking "I have a fear of missing out... I know this is going to be awesome and I have GOT to have it!" but don't be so sure. Wait for delivery day and we'll help you decide.

Maybe in that process someone will be like "I don't want this anymore" and sell it to you at cost (shipping may vary). But then, by then maybe you won't want it anymore either?

Yeah, like I said, I think you kinda missed my intent entirely. I'm not wondering about myself, today. I have the original and then some. I don't need the new printing, but I'd like to encourage Hasbro to keep going with it, if I can. If I can't… *shrug* I've said I consider the new printing to be game pieces first and foremost. They're D&D style minis that can be easily added to in the same scale and style at any FLGS with similar minis of similar art style.

I'm far more concerned about the fact that the original is becoming more and more difficult to obtain, week by week. I've been following listings and the ones that were reasonable have been bought up, leaving the unreasonable ones. That happens. But the new listings are … less and less reasonable. As with vintage computers, you've probably got the case that people who love the original probably have _several_ copies (not even just two) and despite there being lots of copies out there in the wild, copies in anything resembling good condition for anything resembling a fair price are beginning to be hard to come by, even vs. last week.

That problem WILL continue to happen until the original becomes something the average person interested in it just can't get.

There's exactly one copy of the AHQ expansion Terror in the Dark available. It's sealed, and the asking price is $1200! If you wanted to get that … well, unless you have a LOT of disposable income, you can't. The same is true with certain retrocomputers today, including some that were extremely popular in their day. They just can't be had by most of us if we haven't already got them. Some of us do, the rest will be left out. That'll be HeroQuest some day.

For those old computers, we've got emulators. If you've got the time and inclination, you can make your own floppy disks (which are not real common anymore, but they're not a precious commodity YET), print the labels, print the manuals and boxes, etc. You can recreate as much or as little of the original experience as you want. Or you can just get the stuff you really need (a disk image usually) and play.

For HQ you need a board, some tiles, a moderately-sized deck of cards, some dice, and minis. The question was … where does one source the requisite minis? Expansion minis are easy enough—grab a few reaper or mantic or even wiz kids minis and rebase them if you care to. Easy enough. It's the original 35 a person would need to start.

You could use standees or tokens to play on the cheap. We talked about how the tokens are probably the best solution for playing the game remotely with an overhead camera. But if you actually want figures on the table, you kinda need an army of the things. And specifically, an army with the right composition: 6 or more goblins, 8 or more orcs (one needs to be unique), 2 mummies, 2 zombies, 4 skeletons, 3 of something else a little tougher than an orc, 4 evil warriors, a gargoyle, and an evil sorcerer/necromancer. More of any of these is fine, but that's the base set.

Oh and the four iconic warriors, which are a little harder to find these days than you'd think because of D&D's tendency to allow half-giant-half-halfling war cleric-paladin-wizard-rogue who is lawful good but cunningly self-centered with affinities for celestial and infernal powers and the prince of a people with no backstory in the world except this booklet I've prepared for you… "Is there a mini ready-made for that?" "Sure, of course!" "Okay, can I get a human wizard with a staff?" "Why would you EVER think I'd have something as stupid and specific as that? What's wrong with you?!" (*sigh* D&D has really gone to s**t hasn't it?)

by **Kurgan** » April 23rd, 2021, 8:33 pm

My ultimate dream would be that Hero Quest literally gets reprinted and becomes a regular thing. That it's just the same game from 1990 back on retail shelves. In the USA, in the UK, in Japan, in Brazil, etc! Like how today you can just buy the version of Monopoly that was new when you were a kid or whatever.

If such a thing ever did happen it would likely be a one-off that would be gone in a flash to the scalper's market...

I'd like to see it become as common as dandelions. And a collector wouldn't need to worry... just stamp the new sets with the current date. But that's only going to happen in my dreams (other properties have done similar things with their vintage toys and games though). The only issue seems to be the split ownership over the miniatures vs. the other artwork and the base game.

The miniatures were the problem I think for those wanting to complete their set but not being able to obtain them. You could easily print just about everything else. But now that 3d printing is coming into its own that's the final piece. Hence, they will need to sell you something in metal or polymer to make you find it worth the while...

Granted, even the resin scans I have are not quite as sharp in their detail as my originals, but some of them are pretty darn good, and even the PLA prints are getting better and better. So if you just want to play with something that's close, that's good enough.

I agree when there's a demand and something is that scarce, there ought to be more to it. Artificially limiting the supply so much, what good does that do? Are they afraid it isn't worth the investment? So hopefully they will see the light on this, but maybe they won't, and we'll go back to being a niche community like before.

by **Anderas** » April 24th, 2021, 2:16 am

lestodante wrote:they probably will priint 20-25.000 copies (3.700.000 / 150) approssimatively.

Or maybe a thousand more maxi....
I remember that Conan Board Game. It is great. It really is. It is just... one of the best tactical skirmish games I've ever seen.

Only,
As a company, if you want to sell it over the years, you gotta keep the stock somewhere... they don't have space, so they don't.

Conan is sinking back under water and I am missing it.

by **lestodante** » April 24th, 2021, 10:48 am

I remember Skynight (he had friends working at Hasbro) saying they didn't have space and destroyed all the Heroquest copies left in the magazine, including Barbarian and Elf Quest Packs!!
Wonder why they didn't a super discount offer and send all the copies to the first available shop instead. :cry:

by **Anderas** » April 24th, 2021, 2:30 pm

They would destroy existing value? Don't know, was it a collectors item at that time already?

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