Quest Objectives

[Ethica]

I ran one of my own quests the other day where the objective was to obtain an artifact. However the quest is specifically designed to make achieving this objective very unlikely (but I maintain that it is actually possible).

The idea is that in this particular quest failure is not only probable but acceptable, because in the plot of the campaign the artifact gets taken by the villain to the next quest where it becomes more easy to get.

My gf says that this is unfair. Because players don't know that the objective is almost impossible they will end up dying in vain trying to achieve it.

But obviously heroes cannot be told that failure is an option because that would make the quest pointless.

The problem arose because the heroes obtained the artifact before the villain did and then got trapped while trying to escape with it. In the end it wasn't until they knew that whatever they did they were going to die; that they agreed to relinquish the artifact in exchange for a way out (so the outcome I needed for the story was eventually achieved, though it cost the wizards life).

So my question is this- How could players be encouraged to quit mid-quest without being told directly that quitting might be an acceptable course of action?

[dresdendoll]

Trap them in a single corridor by using fallen rock traps and tell them that the villain let them live/leave only after handing over the artifact.
Have Mentor appear to the heroes in a vision and advise they hand it over, as they aren't strong enough at this point.
Have a chaos warlock / the main villain appear and cast some kind of sleep spell on all of them - when they wake up the artifact is gone.

I don't see a problem with the way yours went, though. Giving them the choice adds to the atmosphere. And if they all die in the process... just say they were merely unconscious and woke up at some later point to find the artifact gone.


edit: Though, if they used a bunch of healing potions in the process that could prove difficult. Make a "treasure room" in the next map with a horde of items equivalent to whatever they lost trying to escape?

[el_flesh]

It just takes some story telling. Trapping them in a corridor is good.
Then: "Hordes of brainless skeletons come pouring through holes in the high ceilings. Your team manages to kill the first few of them, but they pile up very quickly. They are not interested in fighting at all, however, merely holding all your limbs so that you finally cannot move. This looks like the end, for you are at their mercy; and the undead have none at all. They discard your gear on the floor, utterly ignoring it. Until they come across [artifact name]. The one that takes it form you scuttles over the others, climbing higher and higher on the walls until he passes out of the ceiling hole, and the squad of undead follow, utterly ignoring your team. You are all lying on the ground in various states of undress, shocked at what has just happened. You must sort and rearm your gear and armor, divide the gold all over the ground, and spend [x turns] digging through the fallen rock at one end of the corridor."

[SonandDad]

If I want the heros to go in a particular direction within a quest that I write, then I use the "horde", leaving an easy and obvious escape route.

The "horde" is simply placing a number of "weak" monsters in the quest and releasing them (using one of the little rooms and a secret door works well) as they are killed then they are replaced at the monsters startin loint and then re-join the battle. As little damage is usualy done to the heroes, yet they have to move to allow others to fight, they are forced to move in the direction required. If removing some sort of "object" from the heros is required using the story telling idea

It just takes some story telling. Trapping them in a corridor is good.
Then: "Hordes of ......"

as well as

.....tell them that the villain let them live/leave only after handing over the artifact.
Have Mentor appear to the heroes in a vision and advise they hand it over, as they aren't strong enough at this point.
Have a chaos warlock / the main villain appear and cast some kind of sleep spell on all of them - when they wake up the artifact is gone......."

looks like it would really work well here to.

Will certainly try this in a future quest

[el_flesh]

ehhh... sorry, I found that idea a little weak - like why wouldn't the villain KILL them and then take the artifact? Or kill them after they got the artifact. I agree my way is only 5% better...after the one-purpose artifact-fetching skellies leave the room, why not send them right the hell back in to finish the heros off?

Can someone come up with a more logical construct? Like at TV tropes or something?

[Ethica]

The villain may wish to leave combat so that he doesn't risk being killed. In my case he never wanted to fight, he just wanted the artifact.

I wouldn't like that the heroes get put to sleep and lose the artifact because then attempting to get the artifact in the first place becomes pointless. Mentor advising heroes is better because players still have a choice.

[Phoenix]

You could also implement an "Ice Gremln" type of monster. Just assign the 'steal' ability to a Goblin or Orc and have them steal the Artifact away from the Heroes. Or you could give an enemy the "Escape" spell and instead of making a standard attack, they use a "Steal" attack. After successfully landing a 1, 2 or 3 Combat Die attack, they are successful at stealing the Artifact in question, at which point they can use the Escape spell or use it in the following round.

I figure the Hero players aren't going to complain too much, provided that such a character 'exists' previous to the start of the quest, i.e. you have notes for this event in the Quest notes, already laid out.

Another option:
As you stand facing a mob of monsters, the 'Boss' suddenly appears and casts a spell that even the Wizard does not recognize. The wielder of the [Artifact in question] is knocked back/down and realizes that the [Artifact in question] is gone! The 'Boss' can then disappear while wielding [the Artifact in question].



Bottom line (in my humble opinion) is that as long as the contingency is scripted, it should be okay and plausible.

[ken]

You could also implement an "Ice Gremln" type of monster. Just assign the 'steal' ability to a Goblin or Orc and have them steal the Artifact away from the Heroes. Or you could give an enemy the "Escape" spell and instead of making a standard attack, they use a "Steal" attack. After successfully landing a 1, 2 or 3 Combat Die attack, they are successful at stealing the Artifact in question, at which point they can use the Escape spell or use it in the following round.

I figure the Hero players aren't going to complain too much, provided that such a character 'exists' previous to the start of the quest, i.e. you have notes for this event in the Quest notes, already laid out.

Another option:
As you stand facing a mob of monsters, the 'Boss' suddenly appears and casts a spell that even the Wizard does not recognize. The wielder of the [Artifact in question] is knocked back/down and realizes that the [Artifact in question] is gone! The 'Boss' can then disappear while wielding [the Artifact in question].


Bottom line (in my humble opinion) is that as long as the contingency is scripted, it should be okay and plausible.

Confucious said "all is fair, in love & war", thus agrees Phoenix

[torilen]

I don't have the mind power to read the comments right now, so I'm going to put this out
there and hope I'm not simply repeating what someone else has said.

This kind of objective is what takes HQ from just a board game to an actual role-playing game.
I would suggest that, if quests like this are included in your game, to explain to the players
up front that they will be playing more of a role-playing game...that they should play their
heroes like actual characters (instead of just as game pieces slashing their way through a
dungeon). They should think about what they do, they should think about the consequences of
what they will do. Will they die? Will someone else die? Will the world be saved or destroyed?

Just a thought.

[Ethica]

Good point torilen.

None of the players had ever played actual role playing games before so I can see how they find the concepts alien.