Line of Sight

[arntisdale]

Based on NA rules...

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How the heck is the Elf able to get LoS to the middle orc on the right side of this graphic?
The straight line that is traced from center of Elf square to center of orc square is obviously going through the square occupied by the Wizard.
By my understanding, the Wizard would be blocking the Elf's LoS to that orc, but this rule shows LoS is possible.

That always bugged me.
Can anyone give me a clear rule understanding why this makes sense given the NA ruleset?
Closest thing I can come up with is LoS is fine if it just barely nicks a square occupied by a Hero/Monstser (never stated anywhere).
But... how BIG of a nick is okay??

Personally, I would call that particular LoS as blocked.
What do you think?

[Kurgan]

I never played it with counting that as a real LOS until this past year. It certainly helps the Hero players a lot to count it, considering how few monsters actually have ranged attacks.

The Remake reiterates the rule, so I guess we can consider it intentional (or at least they never bothered to re-assess it carefully).

[Cael Darkhollow]

Bah. Cardinal compass directions and quarters N, NE, E, SE, S, SW, W, NW only.
None of this nicking a corner of a square multiple times to count garbage, why even have a grid system then? Would you allow a shot from an arrow along that path? I wouldn't. (especially since the line crosses top left corner of the wizard's square.)
If I were to draw that diagram: both top right orcs are out of line of sight, while the bottom right is visible (even if just a head, elbow, feet, etc.) but blocked by the hero (no safe shot) the rest of the diagram is right.
To crack out some old school table top rules, when in doubt get down on their eyeline and prove it, bet yet do it with a laser pointer from the hero to the target.

[StratosVX]

My guess is that the logic involved assumes the Wizard would not occupy the whole space as the Wizard is not a square block. Yes, the line-of-sight arrow goes through a small slice of the block occupied by the Wizard, but (in my opinion) the Orc would still be plenty visible to the Elf.

[arntisdale]

I guess that's the part that bugs me, is it comes down to opinions instead of clearly defined rules. When it comes to game mechanics, I'm a fan of clearly defined rules.
If you count that orc as plenty visible, and therefore a viable target for a ranged or spell attack, then when do you count the corners as nicked too much (by the LoS arrow) to allow line of sight, and when do you count them as not too nicked? It would always come down to judgement calls, which can lead to arguments in ambiguous cases.

I would call that shot as blocked.

I guess in a nutshell, I don't use HeroQuest LoS rules, I use Descent 1e LoS rules.

[Sotiris]

It also confused me when i was reading the rules.
The only logical explanation i gave was to consider all figures as circles within their squares.

[HispaZargon]

It also confused me when i was reading the rules.
The only logical explanation i gave was to consider all figures as circles within their squares.

Excellent homebrew interpretation! Unfortunately the rule is not clear as writen in the rulebook.

[Kurgan]

How appropriate since the bases are round in the 2021 remake edition!

I played using the "straight gridlines interpretation" until very recently. I'll admit I didn't look too closely at that arrow on the right. Back in the day the rules were more like a reference guide rather than something you'd read straight through and memorize. Over time we used so many homebrews and such it was hard to recall what we'd thought of ourselves and what was actually printed on the page. This site has caused me to look more closely at it and try to actually learn it. I play how I want to play but it's important (in game terms) to know the difference I agree.

[arntisdale]

It also confused me when i was reading the rules.
The only logical explanation i gave was to consider all figures as circles within their squares.

I agree, that explanation does fit the rules they have presented.
Once upon a time, I used 'The Nickel Test', by placing a nickel in the square and seeing of the LoS arrow would cross the nickel or not. It worked okay, but was also prone to ambiguity.

[Cael Darkhollow]

Ok, let's suppose the Elf Hero can see the orc in question due to how the line of sight rules are given, would you allow range weapons and spells attacks then? Or is the wizard hero too close and an attack would be too risky? Would vital areas be too narrow in profile or partially obscured for a fatal shot? I wonder about that kind of stuff with the orc around the corner but partially seen top left, and the orc diagonal down right through the door frame too. If you put a book down to represent the line from the door frame or wall corner to the elf only half those monsters or less would be visible to the character.
As a board game I would want to make it as simple, concise and clear as possible, to me that would mean straight and diagonal grid system only. But if they are allowing realism creep, such as "I can see that guy even if it's just a little," how far should that go?

Rules are rules, so according to the printed rules it would be a fair shot with an arrow, dagger or hand ax or spell effect, but do think it should be?