Warhammer

[Goblin-King]

The new skeleton warrior sprue doesn't have bows so they are clearly not intended to. If nothing else, GW have at least become good at including all basic weapon options in their newer sprues.
I agree it sucks- Skeleton archers were awesome. You'll just have to rely on fast troops, magic and/or lots of core units to swarm your opponent.

Maybe GW thought it was OP to have cheap-ranged-fear-causing troops which a necromancer could summen even more of each turn...?
I guess it's also an attempt to make the armies more different. Force each player to use different strategies.
If you want EVERYTHING, play Orcs & Goblins! They are very versatile! ........Used to be at least

All troops always have all stats, even if they won't ever need them. It's just a "just in case" precaution. Some obscure rule may somehow require a unit to use an other vice useless stat.

[Big Bene]

All troops always have all stats, even if they won't ever need them.

Yeah, but normally, when they don't have the ability, their stat is simply zero - at least I thought so. Zombies and Ghules actually have zero ballistic skill, which makes sense to me. But skeletons have two, which would also make sense, if they were allowed to use it.

But I have other questions left:
Fleeing
In the movement phase, there comes first the attack "subphase" (sorry, I have to translate this from German, I don't have the English edition - don't know If I use the correct english terms), and later the "compulsory movement" subphase. In the attack subphase, an attacked unit may react by fleeing, turning around and moving at once 2d6 inches away. Then in the compulsory movement subphase, all fleeing units have to move 2d6 (if not passing the regather test). Taken lilterally, this would mean that a unit would flee 4d6 in a single movement phase. I can hardly belife this is correct, or is it?

Turning
A unit turns around the outer front corner of one of it's outer front models' base. All models count as having moved the distance that the model at the far side of the turn has moved. Literally, this would be the model at the diagonally opposide corner, i. e. the model in the last rank at the opposide side, as this is furthest away from the "pivot" model, and moves the longest distance. But I would rather think the rule is meant to be about the model at the opposite side of the front rank.

[Goblin-King]

Fleeing
We have the following phases:

1. Start of turn - Take panic test if fleeing units are within 4''
2. Movement - Here you take rally tests to stop fleeing. Then you perform all compulsory moves.
3. Magic
4. Shooting
5. Close combat - Failing break test will cause a unit to flee RIGHT NOW! That's right they WILL move outside the movement phase.

Turning (Or "wheeling" in UK rulebook)
One of the front corner figures act as a rotation point. The figure in the other front corner is the one who determines how much movement you spend.
This manouvre is called wheeling.

(A turn is when all figures stay where they are but rotate on the spot to face another direction. This cost 25% of their movement.)

[Big Bene]

Thanks a lot for the quick and friendly answer, but it's still not quite clear...

Fleeing
1. Start of turn - Take panic test if fleeing units are within 4''
2. Movement - Here you take rally tests to stop fleeing. Then you perform all compulsory moves.
...
5. Close combat - Failing break test will cause a unit to flee RIGHT NOW! That's right they WILL move outside the movement phase.

That's true, but in this case they still don't move 3d6. When a fleeing unit is attacked, it is destroyed immediately. So either they flee because a failed panic test resp. as a voluntary reaction to an attack (in the movement phase), or they fail the break test after loosing close combat, but not both. An already fleeing unit can't get in close combat.

My question was entirely about the movement phase, which has the following "sub-phases", according to the rule book (8th edition):
- start of turn
- attack
- compulsory movement
- other movement
In the attack subphase, attacks are announced, and units moved in base contact, but actual combat is postponed unti lthe close combat phase. When an attack is pronounced, the attacked unit can voluntaryly choose to flee as one of it's possible "attack reactions". If so, it would turn around and flee (normal rules, 2d6).
In the compulsatory movement subphase, fleeing troups are moved 2d6 according to the fleeing rules. But as a unit that has choosen to flee in the attack phase is by now a "fleeing unit", it would move another 2d6. That's what I find hard to believe.

Turning (Or "wheeling" in UK rulebook)
One of the front corner figures act as a rotation point. The figure in the other front corner is the one who determines how much movement you spend.
This manouvre is called wheeling.

(A turn is when all figures stay where they are but rotate on the spot to face another direction. This cost 25% of their movement.)

OK, this answers my question, which was indeed about the wheeling maneuvre. But is the "turn" maneuvre (figures turn at the spot) still available in the 8th edition? As much as I understand, they dropped it (you would now have to rearrange the unit to archive the same goal, effectively loosing all your movent).

[Goblin-King]

Realizing the rulebook I bought in a second hand store for 1£ is not the latest edition I downloaded the 8th edition.

Turn has indeed been removed, but the rules for wheeling remains the same.

As for fleeing. As I read the rules, it IS possible to flee twice in the same round. Once as a reaction to being charged and again in the compulsory movement phase.
The good thing about this is that it is more difficult to be overrun.

[Big Bene]

Realizing the rulebook I bought in a second hand store for 1£ is not the latest edition...

That's pretty much the problem. I also own an older edition, which I found was somewhat more clear. Granted, the new book is more "user-friendly", the rules are simpler and presented in a more straightforward way, but there are quite some things left unexplained.

...I downloaded the 8th edition.

Could you PN me a link? Would like to read the english original version for comparsion.

As for fleeing. As I read the rules, it IS possible to flee twice in the same round. Once as a reaction to being charged and again in the compulsory movement phase.
The good thing about this is that it is more difficult to be overrun.

As I read it, it is not only possible, but compulsory, if you take the "flee" charge reaction. Thats up to 24'' = 60cm = 2'!So you agree, this is what the rules say. I still find it hard to believe. This would take the unit off the table in quite many cases.

[Goblin-King]

I'v PM'd you a link

It's what the rules say... You will just have to take precautions to be able to rally your troops (strong leadership).
If you choose the flee reaction it is because you want to get AWAY from "that" enemy unit". You don't want to get overrun either, so I think it makes some sense.
And on average you will roll 7 on 2D6.

If you hate this rule so much you should concentrate on making sure you won't have to flee react:
* Hide your weak units behind the strong.
* Make sure to have other regiments nearby to assist and flank the enemy.
* Only use strong armored units who can withstand a charge.
* [some other Sun Tzu advice]

[cynthialee]

read my siggy for the best advice Sun Tsu ever gave to win a war

[Big Bene]

Hi and thanks a lot again for taking all that time to answer the questions of a newbie
(OK, in a strict sense I'm senior player, but havn't played WH for almost 25 years I'm a newbie in all practical terms).

I don't hate this rule, I just wonder and tried to make clear what makes me wonder.
As for strategy, undead are not very likely to flee normally, so the occasional voluntary flight as a "charge reaction" won't do too much harm. Of course, your tips are still welcome and I will try to use them.
Will be some time, however. Right now, I'm still in the phase of planning an army and collecting and customizing some figures...

[Templar]

Right now, I'm still in the phase of planning an army and collecting and customizing some figures...

That's the most fun part