Beastmen

[Spookyhappyfun]

I found a bunch of old-school GW/Talisman Beastmen figures on eBay this morning and bought them. These guys:



Just as I was about to checkout, I noticed that the seller was also selling some of the old Battle Masters Beastmen as well. These guys:



So I got greedy and bought them both. They'll all need re-basing and painting, but when I'm done I'll have two different-looking groups of Beastmen.

Now for the real questions. What do I call them and how do I differentiate them from each other, both in name and stats? I'm not too familiar with Warhammer lore, but I'm reading a bit about Gors and trying to figure out how to handle the two types? I can't call the BM ones Minotaurs either because I'm hoping to actually buy some of the old WHQ Minotaurs someday soon.

I'd like to have them not be too difficult since I've got a lot of them and It'd be nice to use them as a fairly standard monster to encounter and not just a rarer boss. I know that the Mound of the Beastmen quest pack has Beastmen and Beast Lords with the Beast Lords being much harder and almost boss level, but, again, I don't want to relegate either of them to just a boss since I've got lots of them.

How would you handle it from both a lore/story and stat/mechanical view?

I'm thinking that the BM guys are clearly the lesser ones with the GW ones being stronger with a harder attack. A goblin/orc sort of relationship, but maybe with 2 BP? Maybe more? Should they be called Gors or Beastmen? Does "Ungor" fit for the BM ones? Maybe "Chaos Beastman" and "Gor"? Actually, I like that last one.

What do you think?

[knightkrawler]

The smallest Beastmen from Warhammer lore are Ungor, the regular one are Gor, the hunkier, elite Gor are Bestigor.
Ungor nromally have small horns, but the BattleMasters models are too small to get you good Gor, so I'd make them the Ungor and the Warhammer models the Gor, which they are/were for Warhammer.

stats:
Ungor (BM)
Att 2, Def 2, Md 2, Bd 1, Mov 8
Gor (WH)
Att 3, Def 3, Md 2, Bd 2, Mov 6

When you get Bestigor, add another Attack and Defend die.
Don't use the Gor in the same quest as Fimir because of the very similar stats and don't use the Bestigor in the same quest as Chaos Warriors for the same reason.
Think about some special rules, take a look at the HQ25 threads where Daedalus has compiled out ideas for Beastmen.
I'm thinking something that conveys a Berserker rage for Gor and Bestigor like an immediate counter-attack after losing a body point without dying.

[mitchiemasha]

I'd give the long axe diagonal attack and make the short axe a Champion, the shield, enchanted of course. Nice little extra twist to the model.

Shield: Each BS a Hero rolls in attack, against the Beastman, negates a skull.

I'd keep the other stats the same. Harder than an Orc but not quite a Firmir. So we could go same stats as Orc but 2 BP or Same stats as Firmir, 1BP.
Personally... M8A3D3B1. Undecided on Mind and should they be faster or slower?

[knightkrawler]

The BM models are tiny. Pretty petty and petite. Wait till they arrive before deciding, spooky. I think they should be between Goblin and Orc. There's more room statwise.

[Pancho]

Nice find on ebay.

I rather like the name Ungor. It basically means 'un' gor or 'not' gor, thus emphasising their runty status in relation to true gors.

For stats I go with;
Ungor M10 A2 D2 B1 M2
(With ability to make ranged attacks, although if you use the battle masters guys they don't look like they would have bows like my plastic Warhammer figures do).

Gor M8 A4 D3 B2 M2
(Bestial fury: when defending, each skull rolled actually counts as a hit against the attacker. The attacker defends against this counterattack using shields from his initial attack rule).

I like to make Ungor & Gor fast on their feet, like wild animals. The Gors have to be ferocious, and functionally distinguishable from Fimirs, Chaos Warriors, Gnolls etc, or else why play them? They are real savage wild brutes with little regard for their own defence and very dangerous to fight, and every encounter will be a real event and something different from the usual...

So, are you gearing up to play 'Mound of the Beastmen' with these buys?

[mitchiemasha]

The BM models are tiny. Pretty petty and petite. Wait till they arrive before deciding, spooky. I think they should be between Goblin and Orc. There's more room statwise.

Am i over estimating these guys in size? I stick by my shield mod (it's a standard for all shield beasts in my game) but i'll retract my stats. I'll await a size comparison photo.

[mitchiemasha]

I like to make Ungor & Gor fast on their feet, like wild animals. The Gors have to be ferocious, and functionally distinguishable from Fimirs, Chaos Warriors, Gnolls etc

Yes I agree... So faster it should be!

Your beasty fury is similar to my waaagh! I'd go with it. It works a lot better with sets that have more Combat d6. People tend to forget, don't want to be writing it down. If having more Cd6 the Hero can keep the rolled shield dice until after the Beastmans defence.

I do prefer "The attacker defends against this counterattack using shields from his initial attack roll" but for simplicity and space saving in the write up, i went with "Hero defends as normal to Waaagh Hits, Follow Through and Counter Attack".

I really need to work the 'intial attack roll" in. Not that I've play tested it enough to know it's safe. I've loved the idea since seeing Drathes old thread.

[cornixt]

Give them an extra combat die if they move before attacking, a ram attack.

[mitchiemasha]

Give them an extra combat die if they move before attacking, a ram attack.

Excellent. Yes. So stationary, pretty weak. With a run up deadly... Fits perfectly.

[j_dean80]

(Bestial fury: when defending, each skull rolled actually counts as a hit against the attacker. The attacker defends against this counterattack using shields from his initial attack roll).

I've seen this in threads before but I just wanted to say I like the simplicity of it. Very HQ vanilla-ish. A counter without requiring any extra dice rolls sounds like it's from the original game. Keeps the game pace up.