Ye Olde Inn

by **Gold Bearer** » March 18th, 2015, 3:41 am

But you're only 1/8 French so I thought you might just eat the toes.

I think you took that whole post a bit too seriously.

It was in no way meant as anything remotely approaching serious.

National identity is very important because without it how would you know which team to support in world cups?

It may be a hard truth to learn, but zombie apocalypses aren't real. And even in zombie apocalypse (or in other, more realistic desaster scenarios, like a tsunami), when people are forced to work together against all odds, they still will stay different. Different people with differnt backgrounds, including nationalities, which will show in their behavior and in the way they work together.
It's part of the human instinct to group up. There are many small and large levels and scales of groups, but everybody is part of them and has a feeling of where he belongs (even if there may be instances where he is not comfortable with it). I think a nation (which is not identical with the popultion of a state) is the biggest unit a normal person can relate to.
I would define "nation" as group of people defined by:
- Language (most important)
- Culture
- Ethnie
- Country / homeland
- History
- Politics / state
These are not completely congruent, so there are undefined areas, but under normal circumstances, they are connected with each other.

There is no one-world-nation, and I would not wish for one, either.
I love diversity. Diversity needs distinctions.
Drawing a distinction between myself and the stanger helps me in understanding myself, but also in respecting the stranger for what he is.

knightkrawler wrote:Somewhere down the times you're bound to have someone born in, let's put an example here, Silesia, which at the time was German and now isn't. Is that German or Polish ancestry?

Silesia is a somewhat extreme example, as it had a mixed German and Polish population for most of its history, defined by their language, and thinking of themselfes as Germans or Poles respectively. So if the person in question defined himself as German, he would be German ancestry.

knightkrawler wrote:I'm not proud of my national heritage. Mind you, this has nothing to do with my being German. Nobody should be proud of national heritage in these times.

I am. Why not. I'm a very individualistic and nonconformist person (just ask anybody who knows my), but I am what I am, and my national heritage is part of it.
And I'm proud of it, too. Of course it's a different kind of pride than beeing proud in one's own archivements, but, just as beeing proud of your father or sister, it's not illegitimate. And German history and culture has much to be proud of. Of course, this also means accepting the darker parts. Denying any relation to your national heritage is also an easy way to evide responsibility.

While German national charakteristics are part of what makes me what I am, it is of course true researching the nationalities of great-grandparents does hardly really help me to learn something about myself. But I have tried to explain why I have a positive interest in my heritage, and so just like to know more. But as I said, in real live, I hardly put any time in this.

by **knightkrawler** » March 18th, 2015, 5:40 am

Yeah, when I talk about pride I mean "proud of achievement". Too many people get it all wrong in terms of nation, race, religion. I think we can both agree on that.
The other type, that we both feel and can only use the same term "pride" for, is... I don't know... I feel it's so vastly different than the type above that the sentiment needs an own word that is not "pride".
Just my two cents. But yeah, I get you. As an individual, however extreme one's individuality in idealism or reality, can only build this individuality on the foundations of all you listed. There's no other way and even the most unique character roots in educational and environmmental soils.

BB, basically we think along the same lines. It all depends on what you interpret into the word "pride".

And... you mean I can't get my Zombie apocalypse?!

Whut?! I mean... Geez.
I have it at work. They just don't bite.

Gold Bearer: I get the joke now. |_P

by **Big Bene** » March 18th, 2015, 6:10 am

"Conpride"?
I dunno.
There are many kinds of pride. Some people are proud of their properties and possesions.
Or of corporal features such as strength or beauty, which are not archived but just genetic (of course you can enhance both by training etc, but some people are just naturally gifted).
Same goes for intelligence. Very few people would not agree that intelligence is something to be legitimate proud of. But to the greater part, it is not archieved, but just genetic.
Then there are the skills you have got by education, which other people forced on you. Should you be proud of these?

And last, there is the pride in archivements (or other features) of other people you are related to, be it family, village or nation. Or just a person you like , such as an athlete or artist you consider yourself a fan of.

And yes, all of these kinds of pride feel different.
A real own archivement is the purest form, and I too have a special feeling about it.
But then again, they still have something in common. I don't know if I would agree that the pride of archivement is different enough to wish for a special terminus technicus. Perhaps. Matter of taste. But as in reality there isn't such a term, we'll have to live with "pride" for now.

by **Pitbullsandaks** » March 18th, 2015, 8:49 am

I'm a mutt

by **cornixt** » March 18th, 2015, 10:08 am

I'm 100% English to at least 6 generations back. It bit dull really, and the only people who claim to be proud of something like that seem to be the racists. However, the English are a mongrel group and I have clear genetic evidence of having ginger, Scandanavian, German, French, and even far eastern roots somewhere. Just all a bit too distant to trace.

by **torilen** » March 18th, 2015, 10:34 am

Well, if we're really going into full backgrounds....we don't know much from my dad's side of the family.
From my mom's side, however...we know full-bloods at the great-grandparent level (for me)...so I am at least:
1/8 Irish (great grandfather first generation born here)
1/8 Cherokee Indian (great grandmother was full blooded)
1/8 English (two great grandparents were full blooded English)

From my dad's side - there might be German...but we don't know.

I never really claim too much about my heritage, though I feel very proud to be Cherokee, and I do get
quite emotional and rebellious any time I see a good, violent Irish movie (Boondock Saints, for instance).
I also find Gaelic and several native american languages very beautiful and wish I could learn them.

That's about the extent of it, though - except when St Patrick's Day rolls around, and then I like to annoy
my wife with a bunch of Irish food and cheesy Irish blessings.

by **Gold Bearer** » March 18th, 2015, 12:05 pm

cornixt wrote:I'm 100% English to at least 6 generations back. It bit dull really, and the only people who claim to be proud of something like that seem to be the racists. However, the English are a mongrel group and I have clear genetic evidence of having ginger, Scandanavian, German, French, and even far eastern roots somewhere. Just all a bit too distant to trace.

I think we're mainly Danish, I'm sure I heard that somewhere.

by **slev** » March 18th, 2015, 12:11 pm

I'm British, and my ancestors have been here long enough that I feel fully justified turning the bigotry of idiots back on them, and demanding "English go home".