Ye Olde Inn

This conversation started in the Plate Armor thread by Draven.

Ethica wrote this:
Agreed Daedalus, "equipping" a suit a plate armour would take ages.
The problem with weapons though is about weight. If the number of weapons you were allowed to carry wasn't a problem you could easily say "I'm going to use a battle axe when I'm attacking and a broadsword and shield when I'm defending". To simplify all this I only allow 1 main weapon (broadsword, battleaxe, spear, staff), 1 back-up weapon (throwing axe, shortsword, crossbow) and the armour you will be allowed to wear (no shield with battleaxe). I think this is a perfectly fair system, I don't think a hero should be allowed to bear 20 different swords each having advantages for a different kind of monster.

My thought was this:
I've made it a ruling that characters can carry 4 weapons on their person (unless they are all really big, like battle axes - in which case...only three).
It takes an action to put one away or ready it - or a full turn to switch between two different weapons.

As far as armor goes - I've made this ruling:
Chain mail takes 2 turns to put on or take off (basically, slide it on and tie a few things)
Plate mail takes 3 turns to put on or take off. SO - if you were going to switch between armors, it would take a while. You would also
have to include time to put away and ready weapons, shields, helmets, and such.

Just my opinion.

basically, slide it on and tie a few things

Did you ever put on or off chain mail? It's all but easy to "slide it on", and even more difficult to "slide" it off. In reality, it's also hard to get off chainmail and practically impossible to get on or of platemail without the help of a second person.

Of course it's a game, and part of the fun of games is that things are not quite as difficult as they would be in reality. Just feeled a little nerdy.

nah - never put it on myself. Anytime I've seen it in a book or in person or in a movie, it looks like it's kind
of like a female's nightgown - just slips over the head and then you tie a belt around it or something.
Is that not the case, I suppose?

Ah well - like you said...it is just a game. Got to make it a little easier than real life. Certainly can't rule
that it takes 10 or 15 turns to take chain mail on or off. Now - as far as plate mail needing another person to
help...one could rule for that, I think. That would require at least one hero to stay with the hero who wanted to
switch between armors - or that hero would need a hired mercenary with him, or something like that.

If you wanted to allow switching. I never really thought about heroes switching between armors...I created the
time lengths for putting armor on and taking it off for the purpose of making camp at night. I know an adventurer
would not want to sleep in his armor, and should the camp get attacked at night, he would either have to take the
time to put his armor on, or go into battle without it.

nah - never put it on myself. Anytime I've seen it in a book or in person or in a movie, it looks like it's kind
of like a female's nightgown - just slips over the head and then you tie a belt around it or something.
Is that not the case, I suppose?

In principle that's the way it works, but chainmail differs in many ways from textile, two of them making putting it on, and even more so off, quite difficult:
1) It is heavy. Really heavy. A real chainmail that actually protects it's owner weights about 30 pounds at least. Chainmails in films are either the type that is mass produced in India for Life Action RPG (which uses fewer rings made of much thinner wire), or not made of metal at all (the chainmails in the Lord of the Rings movies were made of rubber hoses sliced into rings). I have a hand-made chainmail, which is of course not smithed and riveted like the original ones were (nobody could afford this today), but the rings are thick enough and woven together in the original (very dense) pattern, and believe me, the weight really gets in the way when putting it on or off.
2) It's close-fitting. Because of the pattern of the rings, Chainmail has the strange ability to wide and tighten itself, and it can become as wide as the number of the connected rings allows when unstressed, but when it's pulled in some direction, it will become as thight as possible. When you wear it, it will tighten under it's own weight and fit you like a second skin. When you try to pull it over your head, it tries to hold you like a chinese finger trap. If you want to put it off alone, you have to bow yourself to get your head level with your waist or deeper, hold it fixed at sholder level and let it slowly come down and collect it there. Of course you have to shake yorself and carefully pull the mail here and there to keep it going. Only then you can get your head and arms out of it.

Still in nerd mode... plus, you asked!
It's just some info case yo are interested, not to use in the game!

so how do you go to the loo then?

From Draven's thread, here's portions regarding weapons that pertain to the subject title:

Daedalus wrote:I think weapons should be treated differently, as equipping a weapon from a scabbard or the like is basically picking a thing up. If a weapon was already equipped, it would require a free hand to hold or must be dropped. Later, when no monsters were visible, a dropped weapon could be picked up and retained just as treasure or artifacts are. As a practical limit to counter cheeze, only one weapon (or a shield) can be picked up/equipped or put away in a turn while taking one of the 6 Actions (attacking, for example). A weapon or shield may be put away and a new weapon or shield may be equipped in the same turn if no Action is taken. -edit

daedalus wrote:To a player that says "I'm going to use a battle axe when attacking and a Broadsword and Shield when I'm defending", I'd remind him he must drop his Battle Axe before equipping his Broadsword and Shield. The Battle Axe couldn't recovered until no monsters were visible. It's valuable, so to regain it a Search For Treasure action must be taken.

Still, that is cheezy, and I see your point. Therefor, I'll edit my previous post by stating that only one thing should be allowed to be picked up/equippped in a turn. That would force the player to choose the Shield or Broadsword, creating a penalty that balanced out the weapon-switch bonus.

I agree that a player shouldn't be allowed to tote an unlimited supply of weapons. I never liked that in Warhammerquest... too many items to manage, and none too believable. Having played Mordheim, I think I'll amend your carrying limit in my game to 2 melee weapons, 1 missile weapon, and unlimited daggers. I'll also allow 1 Shield, 1 Helmet, and 1 suit of Mail armor.

and then from the OP:

torilen wrote:My thought was this:
I've made it a ruling that characters can carry 4 weapons on their person (unless they are all really big, like battle axes - in which case...only three).
It takes an action to put one away or ready it - or a full turn to switch between two different weapons.

Hmm... putting a weapon away. It should be possible, so I guess I'd have to call that the equivalent to picking up/equipping a weapon or shield. That would mean while attacking a monster, it would take 1 turn to put away a weapon, then 1 more turn to pick up/equip a new weapon, allowing an attack with it. That pretty much works out like the original rules, but the order is dictated as necessarily taking 2 turns. I guess I'd allow both a weapon to be put away and a new one equipped in 1 turn, but not in combination with any of the 6 Actions. Edit made.

el_flesh wrote:so how do you go to the loo then?

Don't ask.

el_flesh wrote:so how do you go to the loo then?

It's not that long.

el_flesh wrote:so how do you go to the loo then?

In game, I'd say that's basically a pick things up/equip action. Assuming your Hero planned ahead, there should be no monsters present. Thus, he could put away his weapon and equip, er.... you know. Combined with what follows, the whole process is broadly equivalent to the Disarm a Trap action without the risk of an embarrasing failure.

Monty Python wrote:Tim: There he is!
King Arthur: Where?
Tim: There!
King Arthur: What? Behind the rabbit?
Tim: It *is* the rabbit!
King Arthur: You silly sod!
Tim: What?
King Arthur: You got us all worked up!
Tim: Well, that's no ordinary rabbit.
King Arthur: Ohh.
Tim: That's the most foul, cruel, and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on!
Sir Robin: You tit! I soiled my armor I was so scared!

It's not always possible to plan ahead, however. In times of great fear and comic relief, a Hero can be required to successfully Disarm a Trap (every male Hero is considered to have a tool kit- soil armor on a skull result). This is a case where being a tough Dwarf with innate bladder-control skill is a good thing (the Dwarf only fails on a black shield). Any equipped items (and possibly trousers) are dropped.

Monty Python wrote:Sir Robin: Would it help to confuse it if we run away more?
King Arthur: Oh shut up and go and change your armour.

I covered this in Draven's Plate Armor thread.

I do it like this.
Changing/switching weapons takes an action and a Hero never changes any WORN armour during a quest, otherwise they would just keep re equipping the plate mail before rolling to move.
I don't allow a player to change weapons AFTER attacking either, as they would always re equipp the battleaxe after using it, gaining a defence die.
I allow an equip action BEFORE attacking only if movement is sacrificed.
So my Hero can do this during a turn.
Move and attack/search/cast spell or vice versa
Or
Move and equip or equip and then move
Or
Equip and then attack No movement allowed
NEVER
Attack and then equip.