Ye Olde Inn

At the beginning of this quest, the Heroes are captured and stripped of all their weapons and magic. A weaponless Hero attacks with 1 Combat Die and defends with two. I never liked these rules for the following reasons.

1) How do you take away someone's magic?
2)A minimum attack of 1 makes a dagger and staff pointless unless you're going to throw a dagger or attack diagonally with the staff.

My proposal:

1) The Wizard and Elf keep their spells. For Once, the Wizard will be seen as an asset to the team.
2) Allow a minimum attack of one combat die for the Barbarian, Dwarf & Elf only. The Dwarf & Elf however, must score a Black Shield for a successful hit. The Wizard cannot attack.

or
2) Allow a minimum attack of one combat die for the Barbarian, Dwarf & Elf only. Any Monsters defending against the Dwarf or Elf may roll double their regular defend die.

This seems more realistic to me. I think I'll test it out the next time I play this quest.

The other day I tested the first of options 2 in a real game. It was bloody tough for the Heroes, especially since they opened the door to the centre room first. They squeaked by with some massive bruises, but the main problem was a series of really bad rolls on their part and surprisingly great ones on Zargon's.

Next time, I shall try out the second method, or perhaps change the need to score a Black Shield to White Shield instead, just to ease some of the frustrations should the rolling of the bones not go their way.

drathe wrote:This seems more realistic to me. I think I'll test it out the next time I play this quest.

Realistic maybe, but wickedly, evilly hard. Though, I suppose Zargon is supposed to be just that evil. I do like the idea of the Elf and Wizard getting to keep their spells and being relied on in this situation. I normally use them as trap or treasure searchers, mostly to keep the poor wizard out of harm's way. 4 body points is so low. I wonder if anyone's come up with rules to increase hero body points, though I suppose armor increases defense dice so that you have more chances to defend and protect your body points, so why have a rule for increasing body points....yeah, ok, not such a good idea...just wondering.

As pointed out by a recently deceased Hero player of mine, it's nice that there is no real levelling. Otherwise it would suck more to not only lose possible equipment (should other Heroes not be around during the death), but lose experience and levels etc. HeroQuest allows a new Hero to jump on board at anytime and if the equipment was saved from greedy Monsters, than all is pretty well the same, save for a few tears and some well deserved lessons.

If you're looking for an Advancement System, especially for the Wizard, I say check out Phoenix' Imperial Academy. Of the advancement rules I've reviewed, it's the best fit for HeroQuest. It's a great system that holds true to the simplistic charm of HeroQuest. Nothing over-the-top complex, just advancements that generally make sense. I'd say it's the true Advanced HeroQuest edition. But that's just my opinion. I suggest you check it out and see for yourself.

Very good point about the dying Heroes. I guess I take for granted the way my favorite video game (Dragon Quest) will revive my heroes when I get wiped out in a dungeon. A little hard to do in a board game, I guess.

But I still like the idea of getting poor Wizard some more body points. I think I may have to enroll him in this Imperial Academy and see what it has to offer. *skips over to Phoenix's site*

drathe wrote:At the beginning of this quest, the Heroes are captured and stripped of all their weapons and magic. A weaponless Hero attacks with 1 Combat Die and defends with two. I never liked these rules for the following reasons.

1) How do you take away someone's magic?
2)A minimum attack of 1 makes a dagger and staff pointless unless you're going to throw a dagger or attack diagonally with the staff.

1. Through the use of statements like that found above, i've always assumed that magic is used through the use of a spellbook (although, of course, such an item is never officially discussed). In this case, then yes, magic can be taken away. If not, i.e. magic is done only through the use of memorization (which I know there are various statements to back this theory up as well), then no, spells cannot be taken away. That's ridiculous.

2. I came up with an unarmed combat system myself a while back that is similar to yrs, but not as difficult. Roughly quoted, as I don't have the rules in front of me right now, the heroes have to roll a Black Shield, but the amount of dice a hero gets to roll is different.
Barbarian - 4 dice
Dwarf - 3 dice
Elf - 2 dice
Wizard - 1 die
However, no matter that amount of black shields, it still only inflicts 1 bp. I know it's a clumsy system, (it was still being tweaked when i was working on it), but it is tough to come up with a workaround system that is neither too difficult based on a 1 in 6 chance as opposed to a a normal 1 in 2 chance offered by the Staff or Dagger as mentioned before. The fact that these two weapons use the minimum possible rolls makes an unarmed combat situation clumsy no matter what. Even using White Shields is too powerful for unarmed combat, in my opinion, hence the rather unwieldy multiple rolls i had created.

drathe wrote:As pointed out by a recently deceased Hero player of mine, it's nice that there is no real levelling. Otherwise it would suck more to not only lose possible equipment (should other Heroes not be around during the death), but lose experience and levels etc. HeroQuest allows a new Hero to jump on board at anytime and if the equipment was saved from greedy Monsters, than all is pretty well the same, save for a few tears and some well deserved lessons.

Personally, I had always wanted a leveling system, as I believe, if you play a game with any sort of hp system, then there should be leveling. I created a leveling system where you can gain additional bp or mp (mp plays a much bigger role) through the use of gained experience, however, it few and far between that you can gain such additional points. I also took in consideration the death = loss of status. What i did is that death only equals a percentage loss of one's stats or experience to where death is still poignant (loss of stats), but not a tool of embitterment (forcing level 1 heroes into high level quests).

May as well throw in my 2 gold coins:

I also worked up a (I think) simple system for unarmed combat since it didn't make sense that a dagger or staff wouldn't provide a benefit apart from the aforementioned attack range. I considered something similar to Milk's, but statistically this makes the Barbarian's attack more likely to hit than with a 1 die weapon (51.77% vs 50% specifically). You could drop each by 1 die, giving the Wizard no unarmed attack as drathe suggested- this gives some benefit to using a weapon. For those interested, the chance to get a black shield on 1 die is 16.67%, on 2 dice 30.56% and on 3 dice 42.13%.

The system I use is to roll 1 combat die, and a skull (50%) is 1 hit for the Barbarian, a white shield (33.33%) 1 hit for the Dwarf or Elf, and a black shield (16.67%) 1 hit for the Wizard. Dropping the Elf to a black shield and making the Wizard unable to attack might work as well.

Giving the monsters extra defense against an unarmed attack seems like a decent idea too, but I prefer the concept that the beefier hero types have a better chance of inflicting damage with their bare hands.

Zeno

Zeno wrote:I prefer the concept that the beefier hero types have a better chance of inflicting damage with their bare hands.

I agree. Look at the Barbarian for instance. I'm sure his fist could easily do as much damage as a small mace. The other Heroes, not so much.

Zeno wrote:I considered something similar to Milk's, but statistically this makes the Barbarian's attack more likely to hit than with a 1 die weapon (51.77% vs 50% specifically).

You know, for all the little calculations I came up with for other rules, I can't believe I never noticed or caught this. (Now I just feel dumb.) Oh well, that's what knocking around ideas is for.

Zeno wrote:You could drop each by 1 die, giving the Wizard no unarmed attack as drathe suggested- this gives some benefit to using a weapon. For those interested, the chance to get a black shield on 1 die is 16.67%, on 2 dice 30.56% and on 3 dice 42.13%.

I think this is a good fix though. Thanks!
And agreed, the more I think about it, the Wizard is too much of the frail type to be going around sporting fisticuffs.

drathe wrote:I agree. Look at the Barbarian for instance. I'm sure his fist could easily do as much damage as a small mace. The other Heroes, not so much.

Hmm, in my opinion, it's always seemed weird to me that unarmed could ever inflict as much as armed - unless you create a martial artist I suppose (though I've never been a big fan of that in any sort of sword & sorcery type rpg/dungeon crawl myself). But nonetheless, I can understand the argument that such a hero's muscular arms could impact quite a blow.

Personally, I would like to see unarmed create a Stun as opposed to Death. The problem in the HQ universe however is that Heroes can't pass through monsters which would cause great problems in corridors - possibly trapping Heroes forever.

Milk wrote:

Zeno wrote:Personally, I would like to see unarmed create a Stun as opposed to Death. The problem in the HQ universe however is that Heroes can't pass through monsters which would cause great problems in corridors - possibly trapping Heroes forever.

I kind of like this idea and since you're creating a rule for unarmed conflict stunning rather than killing, why not make a rule that squares containing a stunned/unconscious Monsters can be walked through? It's your game! I may try this idea the next time through this quest, or have one of my players test it out for kicks.