Race Against Time: use the Treasure deck for a timer?

[Zenithfleet]

I agree with many others that the 'Race Against Time' Quest is lacklustre compared to other base game Quests. It lacks any kind of gimmick and just plays out like a normal Quest with no sense of urgency. This is particularly true in the EU version, where there's nothing to find apart from some gold.

Several people have suggested various timers / countdowns, e.g. by using special decks of cards. All good ideas.

However, as I play the EU version, I like to keep things as simple as possible. I usually try to come up with solutions that could have been in the official rules, using only cards and models provided in the game itself.

Here's my current idea for improving 'Race Against Time' (EU edition). Insert the following text in the conveniently large empty space below the Quest Notes:


'At the start of the evil wizard player's turn, he or she draws 1 Treasure card. If it is a wandering monster, place the model beside any character and shuffle the card into the Treasure pile. The monster can then move and attack as normal. If the card is not a wandering monster, discard it.

The character players must escape quickly or they will eventually be overrun by monsters! Remember that if not enough models are available, the evil wizard player can substitute another model of the same colour. In this case, if no Fimir models are available, an Orc or Goblin can be placed on the board instead.

If a player searches for treasure, follow the usual rules.'


(A bit pedantic, but again, I'm trying to imagine how it would have been written in the original release.)

The idea here is that if the players take too long to escape, the Treasure deck will eventually shrink to just a tiny pile of 5 Wandering Monster cards that the Morcar player keeps recycling, so they'll be attacked every single turn until they leave. Also, anyone who stops to search for treasure is causing the deck to shrink faster...

Edit: I'm picturing it playing out like a sword and sorcery version of the Aliens movie. "They're coming out of the Sigmar-damned walls!" "Heroes, we are LEAVING!"

The base deck of 25 (?) cards seems about right in terms of giving the players enough time, but I'm just guessing as I haven't playtested this yet.

Will this work, or have I overlooked something?

[Pancho]

Rather than adding monsters, I prefer the mechanic of having the evil guide slowly try to fill the exit from the dungeon with rubble. Morcar rolls a combat die at the start of each of his turns and adds a collapsed tunnel marker if he gets a black shield etc. There are different ways to do it but here’s my variation; https://highadventureinaworldofmagic.bl ... -time.html
I also introduced the Evil Wizard card deck for the first time before this quest, which is a great rule for getting the Heroes to hurry up.

[Zenithfleet]

Rather than adding monsters, I prefer the mechanic of having the evil guide slowly try to fill the exit from the dungeon with rubble. Morcar rolls a combat die at the start of each of his turns and adds a collapsed tunnel marker if he gets a black shield etc. There are different ways to do it but here’s my variation; https://highadventureinaworldofmagic.bl ... -time.html
I also introduced the Evil Wizard card deck for the first time before this quest, which is a great rule for getting the Heroes to hurry up.

That's another good one. (I'd also thought about flooding the rooms.) Wouldn't you need a lot of rubble markers, though? EDIT: Oops, I misread that and thought you were filling in the dungeon from the entrance end rather than covering the stairs.

Also, where do you get these Evil Wizard cards that people keep talking about? My Mind points seem to be too low to find them.

Gorgeous-looking painted set by the way.

[Pancho]

Rather than adding monsters, I prefer the mechanic of having the evil guide slowly try to fill the exit from the dungeon with rubble. Morcar rolls a combat die at the start of each of his turns and adds a collapsed tunnel marker if he gets a black shield etc. There are different ways to do it but here’s my variation; https://highadventureinaworldofmagic.bl ... -time.html
I also introduced the Evil Wizard card deck for the first time before this quest, which is a great rule for getting the Heroes to hurry up.

That's another good one. (I'd also thought about flooding the rooms.) Wouldn't you need a lot of rubble markers, though? EDIT: Oops, I misread that and thought you were filling in the dungeon from the entrance end rather than covering the stairs.

Also, where do you get these Evil Wizard cards that people keep talking about? My Mind points seem to be too low to find them.

Gorgeous-looking painted set by the way.

Thanks for the kind comments
Yeah you would just need enough tiles to cover up the final room.
The EW cards by Sjeng are here, near the bottom; http://english.yeoldeinn.com/cards.php
in the UK format.

[Zenithfleet]

Rather than adding monsters, I prefer the mechanic of having the evil guide slowly try to fill the exit from the dungeon with rubble. Morcar rolls a combat die at the start of each of his turns and adds a collapsed tunnel marker if he gets a black shield etc. There are different ways to do it but here’s my variation; https://highadventureinaworldofmagic.bl ... -time.html
I also introduced the Evil Wizard card deck for the first time before this quest, which is a great rule for getting the Heroes to hurry up.

That's another good one. (I'd also thought about flooding the rooms.) Wouldn't you need a lot of rubble markers, though? EDIT: Oops, I misread that and thought you were filling in the dungeon from the entrance end rather than covering the stairs.

Also, where do you get these Evil Wizard cards that people keep talking about? My Mind points seem to be too low to find them.

Gorgeous-looking painted set by the way.

Thanks for the kind comments
Yeah you would just need enough tiles to cover up the final room.
The EW cards by Sjeng are here, near the bottom; http://english.yeoldeinn.com/cards.php
in the UK format.

Ta for that!

I had a read of your blog just now and was startled to see you mention 'Zenithfleet's variant maps'. I was like: "I made variant maps?! When did that happen? Was I drunk at the time?"

Good to see you got a bit of use out of them, even if Melar's Remixed Maze proved a bit mediocre.

[wallydubbs]

Race Against Time takes about 18 turns to complete.

I was never a fan on this quest either, so I just make adjustments whenever my groups play it. I changed the story, as I feel the current one doesn't quite work.

As the Elixir of Life is the artifact in this quest (at least in the North American version), I felt compelled to add an Alchemist, as the Elixir is common in alchemical lore.
I also like the concept of a quest there heroes can lose without dying, like Sir Ragnar. So I changed the story but kept the name. As a Race Against Time adds a sense of urgency, I added a time limit based on turns. If the heroes don't save the Alchemist within 20 turns they fail the quest.

I scrapped the story of the untrustworthy guide and tell the heroes:
"On route to the mythic Castle of Lore, you stop at a tavern where you receive word that the Alchemist on the outskirts of town spotted a party orcs descending from the hills. He has sent a message to town before locking himself in his lab, offering a reward for any group of heroes that come to his aid."

As the heroes start the quest I inform them that they have 20 turns to find the Alchemist. On Zargon's 20th turn a monster will kill the Alchemist and no reward will be given.

I remove the spiral staircase in the 4x5 room, add the Alchemist Bench and a bookcase, plus a trap door leading to 2x3 room (Where the Elixir of Life is normally found). The heroes in the room just north of the one they usually start in, put the 3 orcs in that room and go from there.
I also add the iron door to the 4x5 room with the Goblins, so the heroes will know this is the entrance to the lab. The Iron Door is alchemically made and is locked, can only he open from the inside or with the Genie Spell. So if the heroes fail to find the secret door in 2x3 room, where the trap door is, they can also use Pass Through Rock to gain entrance to the lab.

Pictures can be found here:
download/file.php?id=5367&mode=view

[Anderas]

Some great suggestions here! You could use the "timer" wandering monsters also to put a rubble tile on the map.

The problem with adding monsters is that the Wizard will die. He has no way of keeping out of the fights if the monsters are placed at Morcar's leisure. Maybe you can add that they must be placed next to the highest BP Hero and attack this one in it's first turn?

[Zenithfleet]

Some great suggestions here! You could use the "timer" wandering monsters also to put a rubble tile on the map.

The problem with adding monsters is that the Wizard will die. He has no way of keeping out of the fights if the monsters are placed at Morcar's leisure. Maybe you can add that they must be placed next to the highest BP Hero and attack this one in it's first turn?

Thank you--this is very useful feedback that I hadn't considered. Placing next to highest BP might work.

Another possibility could be that the evil wizard player draws the Treasure card at the end of their turn, so they can't move and attack with the wandering monster. That would give the heroes a chance to kill it before it attacks them. Even if it jumps out on the Wizard, the other players can rearrange their formation to protect him.

Yet another idea is that the wandering monster is placed somewhere specific on the board instead of right next to the Heroes. (e.g. in the starting room). Like that Kellar's Keep quest where the monsters come through the entrance door.

[Zenithfleet]

After some further thought, and following the general design principle of EU HeroQuest (i.e. "make it as simple as you possibly can, and then make it simpler")...

I could get rid of the wandering monster idea entirely. Just have the evil wizard player discard a Treasure card from the top of the deck each turn. Doesn't matter what's on it. If the Treasure deck runs out, game over. (The stairway collapses or some such thing.)

This way there's no worrying about balance issues or unfair threats to the Wizard from wandering monsters. (Also, no worrying that a run of bad rolls makes the game end unfairly fast or take too long, as might happen with rolling a die for the cave-in.) There's just a simple timer--the Treasure deck.

25 cards in the EU base game should be more than enough time, but the Heroes won't necessarily know that. And if they search for treasure, they risk depleting the deck faster, simulating the effect of stopping to waste time looking for gold.

[Daedalus]

Pancho, I like your thinking.
Great minds . . . (Read last two paragraphs.)