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EU 1st, 2nd editions vs. NA (and remake) Rules revisited...

Discuss the Rules of HeroQuest as set out by Milton Bradley Game Systems and Quest Packs.

EU 1st, 2nd editions vs. NA (and remake) Rules revisited...

Postby Kurgan » February 2nd, 2025, 10:48 am

I'd like to compile once again the mechanical differences between the rules "as written" in the first (1989), second (1990) European rules (and noting, where possible, when different language editions might have differed from each other) based on recent discussions.

I am finding that a lot of things I thought I knew about the European editions (I grew up with the US version) were a confusion I had with various house rules or harmonizations I'd seen posted online, rather than reading the text carefully.

I'm not saying you can't play the game the way you want to, obviously I believe that you should, and I'm not saying there aren't "errata" in official releases because obviously there are (see HispaZargon's threads on these are very interesting to read and helpful for Zargons!).

I also admit I don't 100% agree always that the way Avalon Hill interprets the rules of HeroQuest today is necessarily what was intended "back then" (while Stephen Baker is a freelance designer who frequently contributes to the new HeroQuest, keep in mind that three and a half decades ago he was not involved with the NA/US editions, except that he met and discussed with Mike Gray, the leader of that team, at the start).

My purpose here isn't to "resolve" any differences or create a hybrid version that I think is best, only to lay out the differences in black and white so to speak.

Then there's the Japanese edition which does its own thing.

And the computer game(s) while interesting, aren't the end-all be all either, as they may have been based upon the EU rules but do some weird stuff on their own that isn't in keeping with any physical version of the game.

Adding a comparison also with the Remake (Avalon Hill) edition will take up even more space so for now I'm going to focus on the 1989-1993 editions.

So setting aside aesthetic differences, box contents (ex: EU includes 4 combat dice while NA includes 6), name changes of characters (Wardoz is called Karlen in the EU edition, and Sir Ragnar is known as Sir Manfred in the Italian version), or bits of story lore that have been snipped out (Mentor's warning about Morcar's eventual destruction at the hands of the Great Powers of Chaos he has aligned with, or the fate of Sir Ragnar in ROTWL) let me list some of the differences in official published Rule Mechanics (whether found in the instructions booklet, quest booklet, or cards), as they occur to someone like me, lately learning about them. For reference I have had a copy of the 1st edition for a few years now (though it's not always handy to reference) but for the 2nd I have to rely on what is available online...

I welcome contributions and corrections!

For the core set or "Game System":

Quest Book
(there are too many small differences in item placement in the quests to list them all here, but sometimes the monster distributions are different for example and there are differences in "boss" encounters)

1st Edition:
Quests are not numbered, but the first one of the fourteen is "The Maze." The Rules of Play actually mention playing "the Arena" in two last-man-standing deathmatch style encounters in the center room first... one where the heroes square off against each other and five goblins but without magic and the second time with magic, as practice before "The Maze" begins. Heroes become Champions after completing three "tasks" (three quests) and receive a bonus of 500 gold coins (if any choose to steal some or all of Prince Magnus's gold in the third quest, they become an "outlaw" and may never become a champion).

2nd Edition:
"The Maze" is replaced with "The Trial" (and the mentions of the arena are gone, but once again heroes aka "player characters" are allowed to attack and cast hindering spells against each other if they so choose. In this first version of the Trial there are no traps or secret doors, but also ONLY the monster cards are used. The way treasure is found is a bit different, simply talking about "opening" chests to look inside. This means no magic and no treasure deck are used as well. Heroes still become champions in the same way (and forfeit it in the same way) but do not get the gold bonus.

NA Edition:
"The Trial" still says no Traps or Secret Doors are in this quest but there are no other restrictions on gameplay, and all cards and other regular game mechanics are used from this edition. Like second edition there is no gold bonus but heroes are only said to become champions if they complete quest 14 (to defeat the Witch Lord).



Treasure Deck:

(has its own distributions of treasures, hazards are called "trap!," wandering monsters, and other items including holy water and potion of speed, that are different from the NA deck)

1st Edition:
Shuffle once at the beginning of each quest.
All cards, including gold, go back into the deck!
Potions (and Holy Water) are held onto until used, but must be returned at the end of the quest even if unused.

2nd Edition:
Cards are shuffled before each search for treasure.
Only "bad" (and "nothing"?) cards are returned to the deck, while gold and "used" items are returned to the pile after you write it down on your sheet.
Do Potions & Holy Water "expire"?

NA Edition:
Cards shuffled before each search for treasure.
Bad cards go to the bottom of the deck.
Items are added to your sheet and can be kept until used though the cards are not held onto.
The deck loses Holy Water, Potion of Speed, "Nothing," Random Gold, 10 Gold, and the Treasure Horde (in favor of repeats of some medium sized gold/jewels/gem). "Trap!" is renamed "Hazard" and the number increased to four (two of each type). The Wandering Monsters are increased to 6. The are now three Potions of Healing (that each restore the outcome of a roll of 1 red die) instead of two that restore 4 lost body points.



Monster deck

1st Edition:
Fimir, Mummy, Chaos Warrior, Gargoyle each have one body point.
Zombie has 4 squares of movement. Chaos Warrior has 6 squares of movement and 3 attack dice. Gargoyle has 4 defend dice.

2nd Edition:
Same.

NA Edition:
Fimir and Mummy have two body points. Chaos Warrior and Gargoyle have three body points.
Zombie has 5 squares of movement. Chaos Warrior has 7 squares of movement and 4 attack dice.
Gargoyle has 5 defend dice.


Equipment Deck:

1st Edition:
14 cards including two copies each of the Helmet and Shield. Early printings have a shortsword that lacks diagonal attack ability.
The Toolkit gives you a 50% chance of disarming a trap but if you fail (and roll a skull), it still disarms the trap but you lose 1 Body Point (Furniture Traps are disarmed automatically, according to the Rules of Play).
Staff attacks with two dice. Cards limit supply of these items which are held onto by the one who buys them.
Battle Axe costs 400 gold, Chainmail 450 gold, Helmet 120 gold, Shield 100 gold,
Plate Mail is called "Plate Armour," originally.
A Hand Axe and a Spear (each costing 150 gold and not usable by wizard, both lost when thrown) are available.


2nd Edition:
14 cards, where the duplicates are replaced with Bracers (200 gold) and Cloak of Protection (350 gold)... both exclusive to the Wizard. Shortsword may attack diagonally.

NA Edition:
Equipment card deck is replaced with the "Armory Board" (or with illustrations listed in the back of the Instructions Booklet in the Brazilian edition), which loses the Bracers, Cloak of Protection, Hand Axe, and Spear. Dagger (25 gold) and Longsword (350 gold) are added. Prices are adjusted for several items (more expensive). Staff attacks with one die. Shortsword cannot attack diagonally.
If the owner of a Toolkit fails their roll when attempting to disarm a trap of any type, then the full effect of the trap goes off (Pits and Fallen Blocks become permanent obstacles).
Battle Axe cost increased to 450 gold, Chainmail to 500 gold, Helmet to 125 gold, Shield to 150 gold, and Plate Armour is renamed to Plate Mail. There are no cards for these items and so the supply is theoretically unlimited when you go shopping.
Debate exists about the utility of the Longsword when compared to the equally priced Crossbow, when it is considered that many interpret (including Avalon Hill today) the latter as being able to shoot the four close diagonal squares (NE, SE, NW, SW if we were using the hero figure as a compass) since the game elsewhere distinguishes between "adjacent" and "diagonally."

Official updates:

The Adventure Design Kit (1991, Europe) offers a new character sheet and suggests players simply write down what they bought on this sheet and not worry about the supply.

Elf Quest Pack: Mage of the Mirror and Barbarian Quest Pack: The Frozen Horror (1992, US only) both say you can sell back equipment to the Armory between quests for half the gold price, with any fractions rounded down (for the dagger which gives you 12 gold back despite costing 25).


Character/Hero Boards:

1st Edition:
The four heroes each have a starting attack value (1 for the Wizard, 2 for the Dwarf and Elf, and 3 for the Barbarian). The character boards are larger than cards and so they can help serve as a visual reminder of turn order and could be turned over to represent the death of a character if desired. The Against the Ogre Horde expansion actually uses the board itself to show how many turns they are under the effects of Chaos Spells represented by the tokens placed on top of it.

2nd Edition:
Same as above.

NA Edition:
The four heroes have starting weapons (Dagger for Wizard, Shortsword for Dwarf and Elf, Broadsword or Barbarian). It's explained in Quest 6 (Legacy of the Orc Warlord) that a hero with no weapon rolls 1 combat dice to attack (just as a hero with no armor rolls 2 dice for defense). If a hero's main weapon is destroyed by Rust (which can only happen to the three types of swords, or else a helmet which is armor) this situation may arise again, though wielders of this Spell are not encountered until the expansions, see Kellar's Keep, Return of the Witch Lord, etc.

Not so much a rule change, but the backs of the character boards now give a list of what a hero can do on their turn.


Movement:

1st Edition:
No backtracking is allowed on player character (hero's) turn. Meaning you can't step on the same square twice but you can do that on your next turn. Also you must have permission from another hero to pass through the square they occupy.

2nd Edition:
No change except you are allowed to backtrack on the same turn if you wish.

NA Edition:
Backtracking is not prohibited, and you can always move through allies on your turn (I guess unless they are under a "Command" spell).



Choosing roles / player cooperation:

1st Edition:
Players roll off to see who gets to pick the Evil Wizard player or a hero. The last person must choose the Evil Wizard player (known as Morcar in these editions) if he hasn't been chosen already. Players compete against each other to win the reward in the first quest "The Maze." Afterward it is implied that victory will be much easier if the heroes work together!

2nd Edition:
Rolling off is not mentioned ??. "The Trial" is the first quest, and it is implied that working together should be their goal, though they are still allowed to fight amongst themselves.

NA Edition:
No rolling off to choose roles is mentioned but it is suggested that if you own the game and gathered your friends to play, you should be Zargon (the name of the Evil Wizard player in this edition as well as the Brazilian edition of 1993). The heroes are not allowed to attack each other (except under the effects of the evil "Command" spell) and are strongly encouraged to work together for victory. Large gold rewards are specifically stated or suggested to be divided among the heroes (and this is reinforced in every expansion).


Player death:

1st Edition:
A player character (hero) reduced to zero Body points or zero Mind points is considered dead and removed from the board for the rest of the quest (a new hero may replace them in the next quest with a new name). If a hero dies in a room or passage (corridor) without another hero present, then the next monster who enters the room steals their possessions (but may not use them) and those are lost forever.

2nd Edition:
Same as above.

EU expansions gave different rules when it comes to what happens to a hero who goes down to zero mind points. In KK they are dead, but in ROTWL and ATOH they are considered unconscious (but not dead) and removed from the board for the rest of that quest. The Dark Company (Advanced Quest/Master Edition) allows an Elixir of Life to be found that brings a dead hero back to life with 1 body point left.

NA Edition:
No specific general rule is provided for 0 Mind points heroes until the expansions (KK: dead, ROTWL: unconscious, Elf/Barbarian Quest packs "goes into shock" with 1 attack die, 2 defend die and 1 red movement die regardless of gear). A dead hero's gear is implied to be stolen by monsters but it is not explicitly stated that a monster must enter the room to claim the loot. In the Barbarian quest pack expansion (the Frozen Horror) an Ice Gremlin can steal certain items (not the weapon they are carrying or the shield out of their hand or the armor being worn, but anything else), and killing that monster thief recalls the item stolen (it can also be recalled in the Ice Gremlin treasure room, though it is not clarified until modern times whether that could mean several quests ago or just within the current quest).

A hero may "escape death" if at the time they are reduced to zero Body Points, they have an unused healing spell (and have not yet used an action on their turn... this was long debated though Avalon Hill in modern times have clarified that they intend this even if the hero dies on someone else's turn), or they have a healing potion to be used immediately to bring them above zero. The Elixir of Life is not explained in detail, only that it allows an already dead hero to be brought back to life with all body and mind points restored.



Quest Treasure / Artifact Deck:

1st Edition:
There are five "Quest Treasures:" (Borin's Armor, Spirit Blade, Orc's Bane, Talisman of Lore, Wand of Recall).
Borin's Armor, Spirit Blade, and Orc's Bane lack any text saying they can't be used by the Wizard. Talisman of Lore increases the wearer's Mind Points by two.
Wand of Recall refers to spells but doesn't say it's limited to only the Elf or Wizard. Orc's Bane mentions the bonus "when you are fighting Orcs" implying it could be used to attack twice against a single Orc OR one attack against two adjacent Orcs in the same turn.

2nd Edition:
Same as above.

NA Edition:
Quest Treasures are now called "Artifacts" (and the term "Quest Treasure" if used, refers to just any special treasure you find in the quest notes rather than on a card). The Wand of Recall is replaced with the Wand of Magic (and mentions the Elf or Wizard), and five new ones are added: Ring of Return (single use only), Elixir of Life (single use only), Spell Ring (Elf or Wizard), Wizard's Cloak, and Wizard's Staff (the latter two for the Wizard alone... being equivalent to the Cloak of Protection and the Staff from the EU 2nd edition but as Artifacts).
Orc's Bane's text is written in such a way as to suggest it's meant to be used against one Orc (and in modern times Avalon Hill clarified that is their interpretation as well).


Seeing/Line of Sight/Missile Fire/Casting:
1st Edition:
The drawing of imaginary lines from the center of one figure or square to another to establish "line of sight" or visibility is only required when targeting characters through doorways or in corridors. Otherwise a figure in the same room with you is always considered to be visible. For purposes of placing items, a hero can "see" the entire corridor or room they're in. ?? Opening a door does not reveal the room until you actually step inside (but you can practically see everything anyway just standing in the doorway). ??

2nd Edition:
Same as above.

NA Edition:
The aiming mechanic for corridors is now also used in rooms. You must have an unobstructed line of sight to be able to cast a spell or target another figure with missile fire. If you can see a monster in the room with you, this should prevent searches of any kind, but it's debated if this means you could form a screen around yourself to obstruct line of sight to a monster and therefore search (when it comes to treasure, a monster in the room prevents the search, period). Furniture is technically never stated to block line of sight, except when it comes to closed doors, while stone blocks are considered walls, so they definitely block line of sight. In modern times Avalon Hill has clarified they interpret it to mean that (in the words of Doug Hopkins) "Treasure cares about monsters in the room, while traps and secret doors care about visibility."


Searching:
1st Edition:
Secret Doors and Traps are searched for at the same time in a single action. Trap tiles for pits and fallen blocks are placed on the board when you search, and removed if you disarm them (furniture traps are disarmed automatically). A hero can't search for anything if he is adjacent to a monster, or a monster is "visible" in the same room or passage (corridor) with him. It doesn't explicitly say there is a limit to the number of searches per hero or per room, at least in the English version.
It never says that treasure chests must be walked up to in order to search them. Fallen Rock and Pit traps can be disarmed (and removed from the board) even after they are triggered (a failed disarm costs 1 Body point, but the trap tile is still removed). Passages (corridors) may be searched for treasure (to draw a card).

2nd Edition:
The new first quest "The Trial" does not explicitly state, but kind of implies that a hero needs to be adjacent to a Treasure Chest to find out what is inside (rather than simply searching for treasure anywhere in the room to reveal all, which is how it works everywhere else; remember that Treasure deck is not used in "The Trial" in this edition). Errata or not, this is interesting. Passages (corridors) may not be searched for treasure. Otherwise it's the same as 1st edition.

NA Edition:
"The Trial" is just like any other quest in terms of mechanics (except the heroes are told there are no secret doors or traps when they begin). Traps are invisible until they are triggered (in the case of Pits and Fallen Block traps) with Zargon merely pointing to them with a line of dialog to indicate each type ("the floor looks weak" for a pit trap, etc). Fallen Block and Pit traps are permanent once triggered.

As mentioned before, the searching and disarming are a bit different between the European and NA editions. The "rubble" tiles used for Fallen Rock traps are also used interchangeably for blocked squares (stone walls) while in the NA edition newly designed tiles are added for the non-trap wall pieces.

Heroes are advised they can each only search a room for Treasure once (quests with a special treasure specify that the "First hero who searches for treasure..." finds whatever it is, and all others draw a card from the Treasure deck).


Spell decks:

Many differences exist between editions with regard to individual spells.
Most of the cards don't mention line of sight when it comes to spell effects, but the general Rules of Play/Instructions talk about aiming so it could be assumed that this applies unless the card says otherwise.

1st Edition:
There are no Chaos Spells (these would first appear in expansions... as tokens in Against the Ogre Horde, and as character specific cards in Wizards of Morcar). However Balur the Fire Mage could use the Fire Spells (and the heroes were prevented from using them in that quest. Other characters sometimes had unique abilities but no card reference).

Rock Skin imparts two extra defense dice but only lasts for a single defense.
Courage imparts two extra attack dice but only lasts for a single attack.
Though the odds are the same, characters defend against Fire of Wrath and Ball of Flame by rolling (apparently any) shields on two combat dice.
Genie allows you to attack anyone on the board (no line of sight required).
Fire of Wrath works against anyone on the board (no line of sight required).
Fire of Wrath is defended against by rolling a shield on one combat die.
Ball of Flame's damage is reduced by each shield you roll on two combat dice.
Veil of Mist allows a hero to pass through other heroes (even without permission).
Sleep's victim immediately attempts to roll (apparently any) shield on one combat die or by rolling a 6 on a red movement die at the start of his next turn (or wakes up immediately when attacked but may not defend)... also undead creatures have no immediate defense (but could theoretically roll a 6 on a future turn to wake up).
Pass Through Rock lacks the warning on the card about being trapped forever inside solid rock.
Heroes may cast offensive spells against one another, not just monsters.

2nd Edition:
Rock Skin lasts until the hero it was cast upon takes any damage.
Courage lasts until the hero no longer has monsters within line of sight.

NA Edition:
A deck of 12 Chaos Spells was introduced (Ball of Flame, Tempest, Sleep, Fear, Firestorm, Summon Undead, Summon Orcs, Lightning Bolt, Command, Cloud of Chaos, Rust, and Escape). These cards are assigned in the quest notes to individual bad guys (bosses). However many of them are not used until the expansions. Despite sharing similar names or themes with some EU expansion chaos spells, they are different mechanically.
Monsters defend against Ball of Flame and Fire of Wrath by rolling 5's or 6's on (2 or 1 respectively) red movement dice.
Heroes may not cast offensive spells against one another (unless, in theory, a hero who is under the effects of Command, depending upon how you interpret it "move him as a monster to attack other heroes").

Courage says it takes effect the next time you attack and ends when you can no longer see a monster (Avalon Hill today intends it to last for only a single attack and can be wasted if monsters move out of line of sight) but this is a highly debated interpretation.
Rock Skin only grants one extra defend dice (but lasts until a body point is lost in the quest).
Fire of Wrath and Ball of Flame are defended against with red movement dice (every 5 or 6 rolled reduces the damage by one point) and require line of sight like other spells.
Genie requires line of sight to your target.
Though it requires some analysis (and this was later confirmed by Avalon Hill to be their interpretation as well) Undead creatures are immune to spells where you are told to defend using mind points. So they cannot be put to Sleep.
Sleep is defended against immediately (and/or?) or on future turns by the monster rolling 1 red movement die for each of his mind points, and if a 6 is rolled the spell is broken... but until then he can't move, attack, or defend himself.


Character Sheets:

1st Edition:
Much of the space on the character sheet is taken up by a large crest with banner that the player is encouraged to use to design their own "coat of arms," motto, etc. A space is provided to show "Tasks Completed" (quests). Otherwise the only other boxes are for the name and character type, body and mind points.

One could argue the simplicity of this design is because the players are encouraged to hold onto the non-Gold "good" Treasure cards until they are used, and they are to hold onto the Equipment cards they purchase between quests as well. The Character/Hero boards already specify the starting attack/defend values. Therefore the only things needing to be jotted down are the changes to body (and more rarely, mind) and the names of the quests (which are not numbered sequentially) for purposes of tracking their road to becoming champions. The back of the sheet is suggested as the place to keep track of money (gold coins).

2nd Edition:
Same as above.

In 1991 the Adventure Design Kit was released in Europe which provided a new character sheet that was not only much larger, but organized differently. The new sheet featured a place for Equipment (overriding the "cards limit supply" rule of the 1st and 2nd edition). There is also a section for treasure (implying, but not explicitly stating, that a similar approach could be used for "good" non-gold Treasure cards, letting them be carried from one quest to the next until used, though one could interpret this to simply be a space for "Quest Treasures" instead without any implied rule changes). The "coat of arms" has been shrunk way down. The ADK also includes a black and white sticker sheet (for creating your own adventures with the blank maps included), and there is a symbol that it seems is meant to be stuck to the sheet to indicate that the hero is a champion and it fits perfectly in this spot.

NA Edition:
The character sheet now numbers off the quests at the bottom (1-14) and asks you to circle the ones this character has completed. Also instead of just a generic blank space for body points there are boxes for starting values of body and mind AND a series of boxes you are meant to cross off and update with the new number whenever body points are changed from the starting values (expansions suggest that you use the "last row of boxes" for tracking mind points). There are now sections for Gold Coins, Weapons, Armor, as well as Potions and other items.


TRAPS:

1st Ed:
Trap tiles are placed when searched for. Furniture traps, as mentioned, are disarmed automatically when searched for and removed. Pit and Fallen Rock traps can be removed after they are triggered (but cost 1 BP if a skull is rolled). Bad cards in the Treasure deck are called "Trap!" but not treated the same as traps (you have an arrow and a spiked pit). A Falling Rock trap is shown on Morcar's quest map as an icon and then there is in the same area a little arrow. The arrow is the "trigger" which causes the rock to fall on the spot where the icon shows. ??

2nd Ed:
Same as above.

NA Edition:
Zargon merely points to the square and says a line ("The floor looks weak," "ceiling looks weak," "this square/furniture/chest looks suspicious/dangerous"). Tiles are only placed if the trap is sprung and Pits and Fallen Rocks are permanent obstacles. Sprung pits may be searched as a room unto themselves by the hero inside them (either for Treasure or for Secret doors, though the latter serves no purpose unless Zargon decides to improvise and come up with something). Fallen Rock traps simply fall onto the square which shows on the icon on Zargon's quest map, once a hero steps onto it (unless in the process of disarming, and of course if he fails, then it falls, and he has to roll 3 combat dice for damage and then move out of the way one square as it has become a permanent obstacle).

"Trap!" in the Treasure Deck are renamed "Hazard!" and consist of two arrows and two pits (no spikes). As before these are just instance of instant damage.


Questbook map & symbols:

1st Ed. Questbook presents the maps and symbols in a monochromatic style (actually dark brown ink on white paper). The Japanese edition uses true black and white.
Monster icons are not re-presented at the end of the booklet, however the Adventure Design Kit of 1991 does provide the icons and symbols in black and white in the form of sticker sheets meant to be affixed to the booklet of 5 blank quests. In the original the designer is free to use the symbols in the booklet as references to draw his or her own.

2nd Ed. Same as above.

NA Edition: Questbook uses green icons for the monsters, gold/orange to indicate trapped tiles (and light green/blue to represent undetectable traps). The ink is a dark reddish color. A list of symbols for the icons of the monsters, furniture, etc. are listed at the end with the blank map, however the distributions of items does not exactly match the box's contents, for example the number of Fimir is only shown as 2 and the numbers of Orcs and Goblins are swapped.


Misc:
1st. Ed.
4 white combat dice and 2 red movement dice are included (all made of wood with rounded corners). This does not imply a limit on the number of dice to roll, you just simply re-roll as needed.

2nd. Ed.
Same as above.

NA Edition:
Same as above but there are now 6 white combat dice included.


EXPANSIONS:

Expansions are not specifically marked to follow the 1st or 2nd Edition EU rules. Some fans believe they should automatically implement the 2nd edition rules while others would just continue to follow whatever rules you were using before until there is a difference in the booklet or cards you're playing. KK/ROTWL were actually released the same year as the first edition, so you could imagine they were probably created with those rules in mind, however.

Kellar's Keep / Return of the Witch Lord:

EU editions:
First released in 1989, the same year as the 1st Edition of HeroQuest.

NA Edition:
Released in 1991. Each booklet adds an "Alchemist Shop" that may be visited between quests, that sells four potions (no cards) that may used during the quests. No limit is placed upon these purchases (Potion of Battle, Potion of Restoration, Potion of Dexterity, and Venom Antidote) as long as you have enough gold.
10 Small cards are shown on the back cover of the quest booklet. You are expected to either cut these out with a scissors (destroying the back cover) or else photocopy them for use. They are mostly single use items, including "Spell Scrolls" (allowing any hero to use one of the Elemental Spells but it "crumbles to dust" after use, all except Swift Wind, Veil of Mist or Water of Healing), a Fire Ring (blocks damage from two fire spells), Magical Throwing Dagger (1 BP instant damage to any target you can see), Armband of healing (+2 BP healing, but restores itself on the next quest to be used again), and Rabbit Boots (much easier to jump traps). Return of the Witch Lord had a single instance of finding a vial of "Sacred Water" in the quest notes that functions just like Holy Water (which was removed from the Treasure Deck in the NA edition) but functions the same way.
Both questbooks feature at least one instance in which there is a "special room" inside a corridor that features a treasure chest.

EU released additional expansions:

Against the Ogre Horde (1990) - 7 new quests, "Ogre" monsters that have variable body points (and Ogre bosses with multiple body points). These monsters lack actual cards but their stats are provided in the booklet and on the back cover of the quest book. Chaos Spell tokens are added for three new bad guy powers (Dominate, Mind Blast, and Mind Lock) that utilize mind points (Mind Points automatically restore to full between quests), with the number of tokens representing either how many uses of a spell the bad guy has or else the duration of turns it will last. Many new tiles including an outdoor area, and some stone doors. Gives instructions on playing the quests "as a series" implying you don't get to shop between quests but get 5 healing potions each that restore all lost body points. New traps.

Wizards of Morcar (1991) - 5 new quests, "Evil Sorcerer" miniatures (4 of them) each with their own stash of 6 chaos spell cards (some of them will be familiar to NA players but they are all different in some way mechanically, for example Rust can destroy ANY piece of equipment, and Lightning bolt uses a tile. Many new tiles, but also new Treasure cards to be added to the deck, new spells (3 new spell groups that can be used by the Elf and/or Wizard instead of one of the elemental groups... Protection, Detection, and Darkness), as well as 12 mercenary figures that may be hired. These mercenaries have interchangeable weapons. Unlike the mercenaries in the NA Frozen Horror, they have only one body point each, the Halberdier cannot attack diagonally, and their are somewhat cheaper to hire, with slightly different stats. Each hero may hire up to 4 mercenaries and there is a rehire discount (only 10 gold!) plus there is a Potion of Charm you can find in the Treasure deck to get a discount. The Treasure Deck also gives you a Potion of Alchemy where you can transform a piece of Equipment into 100 gold coins (remember you can't sell things back to the Armory between quests as in the NA edition).

Adventure Design Kit (1991) - a mostly blank booklet with five grids and spaces to make your own quests with sticker sheets for the map icon symbols for this purpose, a mini-tutorial on making your own adventures, as well as a pad of extra large and re-designed Character Sheets that are better organized with more room to write things down (because it suggests you ignore the cards limiting supply of equipment and just write it down when you find it, possibly as well when it comes to non-gold items you find in the Treasure deck).

Not so much an expansion, but there was a 3rd edition of the game, of sorts... it was called "HeroQuest: Advanced Quest Edition" Or "HeroQuest: Master Edition" (in Germany) which was just the 2nd edition but also with the WOM mercenaries (only this time they were bad guys) and a fold out poster for a large, multi-part quest called "the Dark Company" where you hunt down traitor knights to the Empire (backtracking between boards restores dead monsters but doesn't replenish found treasures).

There were also other merchandise... a Sticker Album... a comic magazine ("Marvel Winter Special" that included a painting guide as well as a bonus quest and some bonus tiles you could cut out or photocopy)... three novels by fantasy writer Dave Morris (two of which included a bonus "solo" quest each, one focused on the Barbarian and one focused on the Wizard... in each of them you can find an ally who is the other type of hero who can assist you) all three of which included a prose narrative about the world of Heroquest from the heroes POV as well as a choose your own adventure style version of the adventure... jigsaw puzzles of the various Les Edwards art covers... a rare Orc t-shirt... and a super rare stitched back patch.

A PC game was released on DOS, Amiga, Atari ST, Commodore 64, Amstrad CPC, Acorn 32-bit, ZX-Spectrum. Mobygames claims that there was a second version that included Return of the Witch Lord and was only available for DOS, Amiga, Atari ST, ZX Spectrum and Commodore 64. The version I have was released in 1995 and comes on a CD-ROM instead of floppy but is identical to the DOS version I played years ago (both show 1991 in the game itself, and there are no extra features on the disc just a PDF of text manual). A lesser known sequel "HeroQuest II: Legacy of Sorasil" was released in 1994 for the Amiga computer and Amiga CD-32 console with some D&D inspired monsters, and new hero classes (Cleric, Mystic, Ranger, and Paladin) and heroes are allowed to buy Spell Scrolls at shops and can put planks over trap tiles to fix them and seems more loosely inspired by HeroQuest, with some large outdoor areas, huge dungeons, and has no physical board game equivalent.

White Dwarf Magazine featured at least two issues that covered HeroQuest and added new quests (showcasing miniatures from the Citadel catalog for Warhammer Fantasy) including The Halls of Durrag-Dol, and the Eyes of Chaos.

NA Expansions:
Barbarian Quest Pack: The Frozen Horror, and Elf Quest Pack (later renamed "Quest Pack for the Elf"): Mage of the Mirror followed a similar template and were both released in 1992. Further plans for HeroQuest as a board game franchise were unfortunately scrapped after these releases.

Each featured 10, rather frustratingly difficult quests including 3 solo adventures for the title character as well as a two parter for the final in which body and mind points or spells did not replenish and the heroes were not allowed to shop. New artifacts were given (mostly only for the title character and either single use or could only be used within that quest pack) as well as a new Alchemist Shop in each one that featured 3 new potions only for the title hero and a single general potion. Each pack suggested you combine the assets from the other expansions to provide more items to shop for and to upgrade the gear for your heroes. The Solo quests were intended to "gear up" a single hero to get together with a group or else as an optional challenge for when there were only two players at the table. Both packs featured large monsters that took up two squares and could hit diagonally as well. Mage of the Mirror featured monsters that could attack at range as well as new spells for the Elf (choose 3 from a pool of 8). Both included new Treasure cards, rooms and other tiles, new traps. Frozen Horror featured mercenaries that could be hired in group quests (with more body points, and stronger overall stats than their EU counterparts, though at higher cost and no rehire discount) and there were far fewer of them though they could also appear as monsters in certain quests. Halberdiers could hit diagonally. Mage of the Mirror did not feature mercenaries but there were times when monsters came under the control of the heroes, at least temporarily. Both packs featured a female version of the title hero who was simply an alternate with no other differences from her male counterpart.

New general rules were added, saying heroes could exchange items so long as they were adjacent to one another and neither was adjacent to a monster, that heroes could sell unwanted equipment back to the Armory for half gold price rounded down between quests, and that mind points zero put a hero into "shock" (attacks with only 1 die and defends with only 2 dice, while moving with 1 red die). Multiple attacks from the Polar Warbear monster in the Frozen Horror could only be defended against once by each hero, so if two attacks went against the same hero, it was implied that one attack (probably the second one) was unblockable. The Frozen Horror also featured a Yeti hug attack (which automatically happened if the hero took any damage from the Yeti) could not be escaped in the solo quest (some heroes speculated that a hero could die and then revive with a potion to escape), making it an especially deadly surprise, which most agreed made these quests frustrating to play.

Not really an EXPANSION but the last official version of HeroQuest to be released as a boxed board game seems to have been the Brazilian Edition of 1993 in the Portugese language. While it is true a Japanese Edition was released in 1991 (with 14 exclusive quests and some cards removed while new ones were added and a new storyline) through Takara, in Brazil Estrella licensed the NA edition of the game but took many cost saving measures in the design of the board, miniatures (characters were all cardboard standees plugged into a smaller version of the gray plastic door base), two pieces of furniture were papercraft (Sorcerer's Table and Tomb), and the board was much thinner folded cardboard. The Instructions Booklet included all the information (including sketches of the Equipment) in order to get rid of the Armory board. Otherwise it followed the conventions of the NA edition with Zargon as the main antagonist, etc. It was followed by Kellar's Keep and Return of the Witch Lord also in 1993, following the same conventions.
Last edited by Kurgan on February 12th, 2025, 11:25 pm, edited 9 times in total.


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Re: EU 1st, 2nd editions vs. NA (and remake) Rules revisited

Postby Kurgan » February 2nd, 2025, 1:04 pm

Now on to Avalon Hill's changes and clarifications in the Remake edition (2021, 2022, 2025's First Light). On the base level these editions are all based upon the 1990 NA (US) edition, but incorporates some things from the previous EU editions (and sometimes even inspiration from the Japanese edition, fan ideas, or just new things in general).

I may not go exhaustively into every single change in First Light as there are many (adding a new Dragon monster, blessings and curses, new artifacts that lack cards, and some rules that appear only in the quest campaign but are not included in the main rulebook, implying that it's up to Zargon whether they are included in any other adventures).

But here I am trying to focus on the general rules of the Game System (and "First Light" is being sold as an alternate game system)...

Artifacts:

2021-2022 Edition:
Adds new artifacts including Fortune's Longsword, Ring of Fortitude, Phantom Blade, and Rod of Telekinesis. None of these are found in the original 14 quests (or in KK/ROTWL) but are found in some other 21st century expansions including Spirit Queen's Torment and Prophecy of Telor, as well as the free digital quest "New Beginnings." They may also be found in other expansions as part of the new product line designed by Avalon Hill.
Borin's Armor mentions being able to be combined with a Shield and/or Helmet.

2025 First Light:
Orc's Bane was spoken of by Avalon Hill as having been intended to only be used against a single Orc. This may also be the way they interpret it to have worked in the previous versions.



Spells:

2021-2022 Edition:
Courage lasts for a single attack via the stated intention of AH (the card is somewhat ambiguous but the wording is slightly different than the NA edition.

2025 First Light:
Courage is explicitly stated to last for a single attack and the clarification is that the spell can be wasted if the monsters move out of line of sight even before the attack.
Command only allows the Evil Wizard Player Zargon to take control of the hero's movement and weapon attack (no mention of spells or other items).
Lightning Bolt doesn't mention affecting monsters at all (only heroes), but AH has clarified this was an error and it's meant to work the same way as it did in previous editions.




Player Death:

2021-2022 Edition:
Same as NA.

Jungles of Delthrak expansion adds the option to allow a "dead" hero to instead be "incapacitated" and either has one round to be saved by an unthreatened adjacent hero to "administer" a healing potion to them (or cast a spell upon the skull tile placed where they "died") or else simple incapacitate those heroes until there are no monsters on the board (unless all heroes are incapacitated at the same time) and then they each gain 1 body point back and return to play.

2025 First Light:
It is clarified that even if it's not that hero's turn when they die, they can use an unused healing spell to save themselves from death (most hero deaths occur on Zargon's turn anyway). The Elixir of Life is implied to work like a healing potion in JoD's incapacitated rule, since it says it can be "administered" to a dead hero to revive them.



Seeing / Line of Sight / Movement:
2021-2022 Edition:
One arrow was missing from a diagram copied from the NA edition, but this was clarified to simply be an error. Everything is intended to work as it did in the 1990 US edition.

2025 Edition:
It is suggested that in the "original HeroQuest" (it is not 100% clear exactly what is meant here... as in the 2021 edition, the 1990 NA edition, or possibly the 1989 European original?) the rules didn't explicitly say that furniture blocked line of sights OR impeded movement, but that strategic players may choose to make this the case. Interestingly, the official Companion App (which is not always correct to the written rules) allows you to toggle on "Intangible furniture" that allows all characters to pass right through these objects, but even without the toggle Treasure chests can be passed through during movement. However expansions like Jungles of Delthrak imply that furniture was always intended to impede movement since there are special potions and artifacts that feature the ability to pass through them.


Role Playing:
Nothing is really indicated as far as "role playing" the heroes is concerned (though the Japanese edition of 1991 was marketed as a "Role playing" game and encouraged ad-lib dialog from the Demon King Grimdead, which is the name of the Evil Wizard player in that rule edition as well as "leveling up" between rounds at the cost of gold and dice roll) other than giving your character a name. The Evil Wizard GM Player is the one doing all of the lore spinning with his narrations as Zargon/Morcar/Grimdead or as Mentor.

The 2023 free digital quest supplement to Rise of the Dread Moon "Knightfall" encouraged the characters to introduce themselves to each other before the quest begins.

2025's First Light suggests that if the players wish to, they can role play their characters in the game.



Equipment:

2021-2022 Edition:
The Armory board has been removed in favor of restoring the Equipment Deck. However the Armory concept is retained and while duplicates of some items are included (Battle Axe, Crossbow, Longsword, Helmet, Shield), cards are stated not to limit supply.
Bracers have be restored (cost of 200 gold coins) but now can be worn by any hero. They are described as being made of hardened leather (to allow certain new heroes who have restrictions on "metal armor" to use them).
Potion of Speed and Holy Water are restored, but as Equipment cards with gold values to purchase them (100 and 400 respectively), also implying they can be sold back to the Armory at half gold value if no longer wanted. These are not found normally in the 14 quests of the Game System, Kellar's Keep, though Sacred Water (that functions like Holy Water) is found in Return of the Witch Lord. These two expansions also begin the trend of having Alchemist Shop potions also be included as Equipment cards (cards do not limit supply).
Helmets were not mentioned as being made of metal on the 2021 card but were called metal on the 2022 card, presumably to avoid confusion with the new expansion heroes that have restrictions on "metal" armor.
2021 Hand Axe card doesn't say it can't be used by the Wizard, but the 2022 card restricts him from using it, as in the EU original.

2025 First Light:
Potion of Speed only permits one instance of this item to be used per turn (like Potion of Dexterity from another expansion).
For the first time in a "game system" rulebook, selling Equipment back to the Armory at half price is explicitly mentioned. Previously it was described, in AH's remake era in the Elf and Barbarian expansions (Mage of the Mirror and Frozen Horror) and also explained in the free digital quest "New Beginnings."



Multi-attacks:

2021-2022:
As in the NA edition it was based upon, no special rules are attached to multiple attacks directed at the same target within a turn (such as is possible with the Orc's Bane against a single Orc, or the use of Heroic Brew).

The only time this was discussed was in the 1992 Barbarian Quest Pack expansion in which the Polar Warbears were described has having the ability to hit the same hero twice and only one attack could be defended against. 2022's free digital quest "Into the Northlands" intended as a prelude and supplement to The Frozen Horror remake clarified that the target waits for the second roll to decide if they want to defend against that one (and the official HeroQuest Companion App shows both rolls and tells the hero to defend against one of them). The second Hero Collection expansion ("The Rogue Heir of Elethorn") explains that multi-attacks work this way for those directed by heroes against monsters as well (one of the multiple attacks is unblockable... the victim chooses which one to roll their defense against).

2025 First Light:
Multi-attacks are explained as in the Rogue expansion.


2021-2022 Edition:
Movement is handled the same as in the NA edition. However various expansions (starting with the digital supplement to the Frozen Horror known as "Into the Northlands") suggest that when there are no monsters on the board the heroes may move up to 4 squares for each red movement die they would normally roll. It is not explained what to do when monsters appear within the course of that hero's turn (presumably it simply switches back to rolling to move for the next hero in the turn order after that, etc) or precisely how this impacts "Celerity" (Elf Potion of Speed) though in theory it would boost the character to 12 squares of unthreatened movement regardless of what is happening.

2025 First Light:
Unthreatened movement is incorporated into the basic rules, at least in the Quest booklet.


Other rules:
2025 First Light:
Undead creatures (evil monsters with zero mind points) are said to be immune to Spells that interact with Mind points.
Large monsters (described in expansions including the Frozen Horror, Mage of the Mirror, Jungles of Delthrak, and Against the Ogre Horde all in the AH era) are explained in the quest booklet as the Dragon takes up two squares.
Sly Storage says the first hero to search for treasure in the room with a Cupboard draws two treasure cards instead of one and resolves them one after the other.
Healing Hearth says that any hero who searches for treasure in a room with a Fireplace may choose to restore one lost body point (once per quest) instead of drawing a Treasure card.


It's also worth mentioning that the HeroQuest Companion App (Board Game Companion for iOS and AndroidOS) is constantly evolving, and while it contains some eccentric deviations from the printed rules of the AH editions, it also includes some interesting tidbits...

Difficulty sliders to boost monsters including:
turning all Goblins into "Advanced Goblins" (they may take part of their movement, attack, and then take the rest of their movement)
turning all Skeletons into "Advanced Skeletons" (they may attack diagonally)
Monsters can have any combination of optional boosts including +1 attack, +1 defend, +1 body, +1 mind... and Wandering Monsters may be "doubled" (whatever they are in the booklet).


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Re: EU 1st, 2nd editions vs. NA (and remake) Rules revisited

Postby Zenithfleet » February 3rd, 2025, 4:35 am

I'll address a few 2nd ed UK/Aus things here as that's the version I own.

Firstly it may be worth noting the general tone and style difference between the UK/EU and NA editions.

The UK writing style of the 2nd edition is terse and 'boardgamey'. Miniatures are referred to as 'pieces' sometimes, similar to chess pieces, and are 'eliminated' from play. The heroes are referred to as 'characters' or 'character players'. The Morcar player is always 'the Evil Wizard player' (sometimes capitalised and sometimes not), never directly as Morcar. In fact, I don't think the name Morcar is ever used outside of Gaze-font flavour text from Mentor. The quest notes never directly address the player as "Morcar". They just say "You may..." or "The evil wizard player may..."

By contrast, the NA writing style is more verbose, both in the rulebook and the questbooks. It directly refers to the Zargon player as Zargon. The heroes are called Heroes (if I recall correctly).

(Interestingly, the Milton Bradley editions of Thunder Road from the late 80s also show a similar difference in their NA vs UK rules pamphlets.)

Arguably the NA general tone is closer to a proto-RPG for a slightly older audience. The UK tone, at least in the 2nd edition, is trying its best to sound like a traditional family boardgame. It's a bit like the way Nintendo made the NES look like a toy or VCR in many territories rather than a video game console.

By the way, my favourite expression from the UK rules is from Against the Ogre Horde when describing boss monsters: "personality monsters". It's so British. :lol:


The UK 1st edition rulebook is also arranged completely differently to the 2nd edition, introducing concepts in a different order and under alternative headings. It also puts most of the trap rules on the Evil Wizard screen, whereas the 2nd ed rulebook duplicates those in the rulebook itself.

Kurgan wrote:Treasure Deck:

(has its own distributions of treasures, hazards are called "trap!," wandering monsters, and other items including holy water and potion of speed, that are different from the NA deck)

2nd Edition:
Cards are shuffled before each search for treasure.


Not quite... The treasure cards are only shuffled if you're returning a 'bad' card to the pile. If you got a good card, you don't return the card to the pile, and therefore you have no need to shuffle the deck.

Also, while technically you do it 'before the next search', really the implied context is that you put the bad card back in the pile and then you shuffle it right away, ready for the next search, whenever that may be. The instruction to shuffle comes at the end of the paragraph telling you what to do with the bad card. It's the logical thing to do anyway to make sure you don't forget to shuffle.

(Treasure cards, 2nd ed UK, p14)

Kurgan wrote:... gold and "used" items are returned to the pile after you write it down on your sheet.


No, gold cards aren't returned to the pile. You write the value down on your sheet, and then: "The card is then discarded. It is not returned to the treasure card pile."

The rulebook doesn't tell you what to do about used potion cards. However, the potion cards themselves say that you discard them after use. They don't tell you to return the card to the pile (whereas wandering monster and trap cards do say so on the card itself). Therefore, used potion cards aren't returned to the deck either.

Kurgan wrote:Do Potions & Holy Water "expire"?


Yes, according to page 15: "You may not keep ordinary Treasure cards."

The only thing that 'ordinary Treasure cards' could apply to are potions / Holy Water from the deck, because gold cards would have been discarded and bad cards would have gone back into the pile. The only Treasure cards you can be holding onto at the end of a Quest are the potions.

(I totally missed this rule as a kid, because we soon started writing down potions on our sheets, in imitation of the potions of healing you get from Quest Notes.)

Kurgan wrote:Equipment Deck:

1st Edition:
Cards limit supply of these items which are held onto by the one who buys them.


Possibly cards were still intended to be limited supply in the 2nd edition as well. The rules don't strictly say so, but they do tell you to take the card, deduct the gold, and write down 'the benefits' on your character sheet. They don't say what to do with the card afterward--either keep it or return it to the equipment deck. Some of the quests also talk about "having the Helmet card" and so on.

Kurgan wrote:1st Edition:
The four heroes each have a starting attack value (1 for the Wizard, 2 for the Dwarf and Elf, and 3 for the Barbarian). The character boards are larger than cards and so they can help serve as a visual reminder of turn order and could be turned over to represent the death of a character if desired. The Against the Ogre Horde expansion actually uses the board itself to show how many turns they are under the effects of Chaos Spells represented by the tokens placed on top of it.

2nd Edition:
Same as above.


It might be worth noting that the Dwarf being able to remove any trap "in the same room or passage" doesn't match the statement in the 2nd ed book that he must be adjacent to the trap and can only remove one per turn. I'm not sure whether this is an actual rules contradiction, or if the character board is just giving a general "you can do a thing" and the rulebook tells you precisely how to do that thing.

Kurgan wrote:Movement:

1st Edition:
No backtracking is allowed on player character (hero's) turn. Meaning you can't step on the same square twice but you can do that on your next turn. Also you must have permission from another hero to pass through the square they occupy.

2nd Edition:
No change except you are allowed to backtrack on the same turn if you wish.


So, um... changed quite a bit then? :P

Technically the 2nd ed doesn't 'allow' backtracking--it simply says nothing about it, therefore it's allowed (in the same way that it doesn't say anything about not eating chips at the table). ;)

Kurgan wrote:2nd Edition:
Rolling off is not mentioned ??.


Yes it is, on page 4 under 'Choosing Roles'. Also, the last player to choose a role must be the evil wizard player if no one else has already picked him. (It also suggests that if you have fewer than five players, either control more than one character, or play with fewer characters.)

Player death:

1st Edition:
A player character (hero) reduced to zero Body points or zero Mind points is considered dead and removed from the board for the rest of the quest (a new hero may replace them in the next quest with a new name). If a hero dies in a room or passage (corridor) without another hero present, then the next monster who enters the room steals their possessions (but may not use them) and those are lost forever.

2nd Edition:
Same as above.

EU expansions gave different rules when it comes to what happens to a hero who goes down to zero mind points. In KK they are dead, but in ROTWL and ATOH they are considered unconscious (but not dead) and removed from the board for the rest of that quest. The Dark Company (Advanced Quest/Master Edition) allows an Elixir of Life to be found that brings a dead hero back to life with 1 body point left.


Additionally, in 2nd ed (maybe in 1st ed too), a dead character's equipment and gold may be picked up by another character who searches for treasure in the room or passage in which the character was eliminated.

(This is also further evidence that you can search for treasure in passages in the UK/EU version--a rule not quite spelled out clearly in the actual search rules, but heavily implied.)

The general unstated assumption is that the basic rules are overriden by the Quest Notes. Therefore most of the time if you reached zero Mind points you would die, as per the rulebook, unless you were playing those specific quests that say something different/special happens such as falling unconscious.


Quest Treasure / Artifact Deck:
Spirit Blade and Orc's Bane lack any text saying they can't be used by the Wizard.


Quite right too. A Wizard with Orc's Bane is pretty much Young Gandalf. 8-)

If I may say, it's amusing that the NA edition renames the Wand of Recall to Wand of Magic. What other kind of wand is there?


Seeing/Line of Sight/Missile Fire/Casting:
1st Edition:
The drawing of imaginary lines from the center of one figure or square to another to establish "line of sight" or visibility is only required when targeting characters through doorways or in corridors. Otherwise a figure in the same room with you is always considered to be visible. For purposes of placing items, a hero can "see" the entire corridor or room they're in. ?? Opening a door does not reveal the room until you actually step inside (but you can practically see everything anyway just standing in the doorway). ??

2nd Edition:
Same as above.


That's pretty much it, but it may be worth mentioning that in the UK 2nd edition the visible/LOS rules are given in two different places. This can cause confusion when referring to the rules during a game if you look up the wrong section.

Rooms work the same whether you're putting things onto the board, or casting a spell / using a missile weapon. But passages work differently depending on the situation.

Page 9 under 'What can be seen?' is about what to place onto the board and when. In a passage, for this purpose, you ignore other miniatures. So if there are three Orcs in a line in the passage and a blocked square behind them, you put all three Orcs on the board at once, and the blocked square too. This basically speeds things up so you're not interrupting gameplay constantly, putting the next thing out, and then the next thing behind that.

However, page 11 under 'Casting a Spell' specifically says that in passages, other miniatures block what is visible when casting a spell. So you can't hit the third Orc with a Ball of Flame if his mates are in the way.

This restriction also applies to missile weapons as per page 15: "Your opponent must be visible, as per casting a spell." So no shooting through your friend to hit the Orc.

There's a diagram (imported from 1st edition I think), which is awkwardly placed - it ought to go between the Casting a Spell section and the Searching section. At least it's on the same page, though.



Searching:
1st Edition:
Secret Doors and Traps are searched for at the same time in a single action. Trap tiles for pits and fallen blocks are placed on the board when you search, and removed if you disarm them (furniture traps are disarmed automatically). A hero can't search for anything if he is adjacent to a monster, or a monster is "visible" in the same room or passage (corridor) with him. It doesn't explicitly say there is a limit to the number of searches per hero or per room, at least in the English version.
It never says that treasure chests must be walked up to in order to search them. Fallen Rock and Pit traps can be disarmed (and removed from the board) even after they are triggered (a failed disarm costs 1 Body point, but the trap tile is still removed). Passages (corridors) may be searched for treasure (to draw a card).

2nd Edition:
The new first quest "The Trial" does not explicitly state, but kind of implies that a hero needs to be adjacent to a Treasure Chest to find out what is inside (rather than simply searching for treasure anywhere in the room to reveal all, which is how it works everywhere else). Errata or not, this is interesting.


I remain baffled by your ongoing stubbornness when it comes to how opening treasure chests works in 2nd edition... :?: :?: :?:

Every quest in 2nd edition (that I can recall) assumes that you will be opening chests by moving up to them and asking to open the chest, just as you would open a door. That's why traps are placed around treasure chests in the expansions. The Quest Notes always say "The chest contains ..." instead of "Any player who searches ..." like they do for other treasures.

While it's true that the rules never actually say that you must walk up to open chests to open them, it's an unstated assumption present throughout the game. There is no "walking up to them to search them", there's walking up to them and opening them.

Annoyingly, although this seems obvious to me and several other people, Stephen Baker said otherwise in a recent interview. so you may wish to hit me with the authority stick. I think he made a mistake or was misremembering how the UK/EU rules worked.

Granted, the quest designers also seem to have thought that falling block traps worked differently to the way they're actually described in the rulebook. So maybe this is another instance of the same miscommunication or confusion.

EDIT: For reference, here's the old post I made about the treasure chests in the UK/EU 2nd edition. (It was merged into page 5 of a longer thread, so scroll down till you reach it.) A few posts later, HispaZargon finds an additional example in the Dark Company advanced quest.

There's one extra example I missed in that original post: In the base game quest 'Prince Magnus' Gold', the UK quest notes seem to be written with the assumption that the gold stays inside the chest until they're opened. You're meant to carry them out of the quest and give them back to the Prince. The implication is that the heroes should know how much gold is in them (because they need to be tempted to keep them), but the gold stays in the chests while they carry them (which is why they're so heavy you only roll one die for movement).

If you got gold from chests by searching, then the first player to search for Treasure would vacuum up all 750 gold coins from the three chests, leaving them empty and presumably lightweight. You would then have the awkward issue of putting the gold back into the chests later on, plus only one character getting tempted to keep the gold instead of three, plus wondering if you should still be rolling only one die if the chests are empty, etc, etc. The quest design makes more sense if you get gold from chests by opening them, not by searching.

To be fair, it's an oddly designed quest and arguably the worst one in the base game, so I don't want to put too much stress on it...


I'll make the additional point here that you can't just look at the rules by themselves. You have to look at the quests as well, to fully grasp what the what the designers intended. As mentioned, the UK/EU rules can be quite terse. You can accuse them of being too sloppy and ill-defined... or you can see them as expecting players to grasp the 'spirit of the rules' without having to pedantically and robotically explain every detail.

An example off the top of my head is the 'Bastion of Chaos' quest. In this quest there's a small room with a treasure chest and a Gargoyle. If you open the treasure chest the Gargoyle springs to life and attacks. If you search for traps, you discover what would happen if you opened the chest.

Now, strictly according to the 2nd ed rulebook, this makes no sense whatsoever. You can't search for anything if a monster is present. The Gargoyle is a monster. So how are you supposed to search for traps in this room and discover what will happen? (And if you insist that you must search for treasure to get gold from chests, you're not getting gold out of that chest safely either.)

In reality, of course, it's clear that the Gargoyle is meant to be an inanimate statue. It counts as a piece of furniture until you trigger the trap, at which point it becomes an active monster. But the Quest Note in the EU questbook doesn't say this. There's no sentence explaining that this Gargoyle is a statue or that it's ignored for searching purposes. The Note only says the Gargoyle will spring to life and attack.

You have to read the whole paragraph and think, "Well, okay, this note only makes sense if the Gargoyle doesn't count as a monster until it springs to life. Therefore it must be a statue or something. Gargoyles are stone statues brought to life, after all. Aha, I see what they were trying to get across here. I bet there are other quests where the Gargoyle is a statue until it comes to life as well."

The above example isn't about treasure chests per se, but about the general need to interpret context and the 'spirit of the rules' as you play a quest. (Falling block traps are a tricky case where the rules say one thing while the quests suggest another, meaning there are two opposed spirits-of-the-rules playing tug-of-war.)



Searching:
Passages (corridors) may not be searched for treasure.


No, you can search passages for treasure in 2nd edition. It's not clearly stated in the Searching section. However it is mentioned in other places:

a) You get a dead character's equipment and gold if you search for treasure in "the room or passage" where they died.

b) If the player draws a wandering monster card (meaning he searched for treasure), but there's no vacant space next to him, the wandering monster may be placed on any vacant square in "the same room or passage".

The Searching section itself gives no prohibition on it (it's talking about both types of searches at the same time).

More to follow!
Last edited by Zenithfleet on February 5th, 2025, 12:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: EU 1st, 2nd editions vs. NA (and remake) Rules revisited

Postby Agente Cooper » February 3rd, 2025, 5:21 am

a detail that almost no one comments on, and for me it is the biggest difference between versions. In the European version, when you search for a trap, you not only place the secret doors, but they also open. This creates a small risk when doing this action, which is lost in the American version. In the American version it is simply absurd not to look for traps before doing any other search.
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Re: EU 1st, 2nd editions vs. NA (and remake) Rules revisited

Postby Zenithfleet » February 3rd, 2025, 5:42 am

Agente Cooper wrote:a detail that almost no one comments on, and for me it is the biggest difference between versions. In the European version, when you search for a trap, you not only place the secret doors, but they also open. This creates a small risk when doing this action, which is lost in the American version. In the American version it is simply absurd not to look for traps before doing any other search.


Good point! I don't think I ever noticed that in the American rules.


Continuing on with Kurgan's original post...

As before, my comments are restricted to 2nd edition UK/EU.

Regarding searching for treasure, the 2nd ed rulebook uses slightly ambiguous language on page 13 when it explains what happens if you search in a room with a Quest Notes treasure: "the evil wizard player should reveal what treasure is hidden there". It doesn't actually say that player gets the treasure; it just says they are told what is there.

In practice, you obviously do give them the treasure if it's something like Melar's Key or a jewel on the bench or whatever. There's no other possible way to 'take' the treasure. You assume that they pick it up after finding it since they're the one who did the searching.

However, it's another point of ambiguity for the treasure chest rules, because the Trial says you need to "ask to open the chest" but no searching is allowed. Because of this, as kids we tended to play that searching for treasure in a treasure chest room just told you how much gold was in the chest. The contents were revealed as per the wording in the rulebook, but not taken. You still had to open it yourself to actually pick it up.

This is a house rule (and pretty strange, like they're X-raying the room). I just mention it here because it's another indication of the lack of clarity around treasure chests.


Oh yeah--I should probably note that there are a few EU players who reckon you can only search for treasure once per room in the 2nd ed UK/EU rules. However, this appears to be a house rule or assumption, as I can't find any mention of it anywhere. If anyone has evidence to back it up, please let me know!

Spell decks:
Most of the cards don't mention line of sight when it comes to spell effects, but the general Rules of Play/Instructions talk about aiming so it could be assumed that this applies unless the card says otherwise.


In 2nd edition UK/EU rules there's a specific section on Casting a Spell (p 11), which as previously noted says the monster or character must be visible to the spell. (Other miniatures block line of sight.) Therefore all spells require the target to be visible, unless the card says otherwise (like Fire of Wrath).

... characters defend against Fire of Wrath and Ball of Flame by rolling (apparently any) shields on two combat dice.


This is more of a commentary on the rules, but I've always interpreted this to mean you must roll the shield appropriate to your miniature--whether character or monster. So a white shield if you're a character, or a black shield if you're a monster.

Remember, both heroes and monsters can be targeted by spells in the EU game. Specifying "roll a white shield if you're a character or a black shield if you're a monster" would take up a lot of unnecessary text space on the card. Therefore it just says "roll a shield" and you assume that the basic rulebook instructions apply: white shield for characters, black shield for monsters. It's like saying "defend", except you only get the number of dice on the card instead of your usual defence dice.

I don't think it's a big deal if people interpret it as any shield, but I think a specific shield was the intended meaning.

The same thing for Sleep.

Note that Sleep is, I think, the only base game EU spell card that doesn't say to discard it after use--probably due to lack of space. However, again, the rulebook says each spell can be used just once in a Quest and is then discarded. Unless Sleep said it could be used multiple times, the basic rule comes into play and it's a once-per-quest spell.


Character Sheets:

1st Edition:
Much of the space on the character sheet is taken up by a large crest with banner that the player is encouraged to use to design their own "coat of arms," motto, etc. A space is provided to show "Tasks Completed" (quests). Otherwise the only other boxes are for the name and character type, body and mind points.

One could argue the simplicity of this design is because the players are encouraged to hold onto the non-Gold "good" Treasure cards until they are used, and they are to hold onto the Equipment cards they purchase between quests as well. The Character/Hero boards already specify the starting attack/defend values. Therefore the only things needing to be jotted down are the changes to body (and more rarely, mind) and the names of the quests (which are not numbered sequentially) for purposes of tracking their road to becoming champions. The back of the sheet is suggested as the place to keep track of money (gold coins).

2nd Edition:
Same as above.


I have nothing to add here except that I heartily dislike the 1st/2nd ed EU character sheets with that big useless crest and banner. The revised one in the Adventure Design Kit is a lot more practical if you're playing a long series of quests.

However, putting my personal feelings aside, the original character sheets are probably better for young players completely new to HeroQuest, who might just be playing a one-off or a handful of games. They don't look too intimidating, and they give them the chance to do some pencil drawing while waiting for the game to be set up. I've got old character sheets from ancient days that have all kinds of silly heraldic symbols on them (and in some cases names of songs that were popular at the time :lol: ).


Traps


Kurgan, did you mean to include a Traps section? There are a few differences there worth noting. Off the top of my head:

- Pit traps are searchable in the NA rules.

- Falling block traps work differently, which tends to cause issues when porting quests from UK to NA and vice versa. UK falling block traps do more damage but usually fall on a different square to the one they were triggered on.

As noted earlier, one other difference between 1st and 2nd edition UK/EU rules is that in 1st edition the specific trap information is on the inside of the screen. In 2nd ed its still there, but it's also included in the rulebook for reference.

Quests

Although it may be beyond the scope of this topic, the quests also differ a fair bit between UK and NA rules. Many small changes were made. I think the NA Melar's Maze has a couple of Orcs in it, for example, whereas it's a purely Undead-themed quest in the UK rules.

The single biggest difference in the quests I can think of is that in Kellar's Keep, UK/EU version, there's a unique 'bonus quest' (Belorn's Mine) that players can miss out on if they don't explore enough. The previous quest has two exit doors. One leads to the next 'story' quest, skipping Belorn's Mine. The other one goes to Belorn's Mine and then proceeds to the next story quest. Since Belorn's Mine has a fair bit of gold in it, it's effectively a reward for exploration--a classic theme of HeroQuest.

For some reason the NA version changed this by sealing one of the exit doors and forcing players to go through Belorn's Mine. That way they don't miss out on a Quest. But on the other hand, a massive reward for exploration--a whole extra Quest!--is lost.


One other thing...

I harp on this at every opportunity, because I think it's important. :ugeek:

The fundamental design philosophies of the UK/EU game and the NA adaptation differed.

The overall design philosophy of the UK/EU game was that players would play competitively at least some of the time. Much of the game is designed around this. Many base game quests have multiple routes to the objective, encouraging players to split up and explore. Monsters have only 1 Body point each not only to avoid bookkeeping, but to allow a lone player a fighting chance of taking out a Mummy or a Chaos Warrior. You might kill the last monster in the room only for your brother or sister to nab all the treasure. Playing competitively encourages making mistakes (like failing to carefully search for traps) because you're in a hurry lest someone else get the goodies before you. And of course, players can attack each other if they want to.

Unfortunately, if the players learn to work together efficiently, or if there's only one player controlling all the heroes, the UK/EU base game becomes too easy. Early reviews identified this problem and suggested house rules based on whether your players were competitive or cooperative.

The NA edition enforced cooperation on the players. Therefore it had to beef up the dangers and the monsters to compensate. However, there are legacy issues in the quests because they were designed around a different philosophy.

Also, arguably the NA edition was trying harder to be a light RPG, whereas the UK/EU game was more aggressively a boardgame. I don't recall any suggestion that the Evil Wizard player should curate things or ensure an exciting experience for the players in the UK/EU game. You're a player of a boardgame--you're out to win. Use what you're given and kill them all!

EDIT: Added some more about ye olde interminable treasure chest debate in my previous post, plus a bit about the 'spirit of the rules'. Also removed some off-topic text from the end of this post.
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Re: EU 1st, 2nd editions vs. NA (and remake) Rules revisited

Postby Kurgan » February 12th, 2025, 9:58 pm

Thanks for the feedback! Since I grew up with the NA edition and don't know these other versions very well I was bound to miss a few things, and it sounds like there were rules debates over ambiguous things in your favorite edition all along much like ours. Like for example when it says "shield" for defense... I could imagine you're meant to assume it means "white shield" if the target of the spell is a hero, but "black shield" if the target is a monster, since you can attack both, but since it literally says "shield" that implies any type of shield, which makes a big difference!

Regarding the "one search per room" I think I definitely picked that up from many others who say that, but of course popular house rules aren't necessarily accurate. When we played back in the day we thought opening a secret door meant replace the tile on the board with an open door. We never even considered the close diagonal squares with the Crossbow, or that Courage might be a single attack only. We already somehow "knew" about selling back to the armory (I guess a lot of RPG video games let you do that so it seemed natural) despite none of us having or knowing anyone who had the 1992 expansions. We treated Treasure, Traps, and Secret Door searching the same... if there's a monster in the same room/corridor with you then you couldn't (unless they were asleep), we never thought that meant seeing them off in the distance in another area would limit it. We even ignored that diagram for 30+ years, thinking that you could only shoot diagonally across squares like the Bishop or Queen in Chess. And finally, we only shuffled the treasure deck once (at the beginning of the quest), and we tended to hang onto cards until they were used (even carrying potions of healing cards between quests sometimes).

Okay I think I found it... in the HeroQuest PC game (Gremlin, 1991), at least the DOS version... each room can be searched ONCE for treasure. I don't have the manual handy to check (it's weird because it gives an abridged version of the board game rulebook followed by the pc rulebook, I guess to show players of the board game what has changed?). This game is based primarily on the 1st edition (no cloak of protection or bracers... "the Maze" is the first quest), but a lot of other things are off or different. I did a whole thread about my findings. I thought of diving back into it but for some reason I can't get my mouse to work with DOS box. I did note at the time that it only allowed one treasure search per room.

However again, there are a lot of differences between this and any board game version (ex: Holy Water kills all undead in the room, you can search sections of the corridor for treasure, scroll the screen and search more of the corridor, Wizard has no equipment restrictions whatsoever, etc) so I can't say that's necessarily what was intended originally.

Edit: good point about the traps! Also dug up this thread where we can compare our notes...!


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Re: EU 1st, 2nd editions vs. NA (and remake) Rules revisited

Postby Bareheaded Warrior » February 13th, 2025, 9:00 am

Kurgan wrote:Regarding the "one search per room" I think I definitely picked that up from many others who say that, but of course popular house rules aren't necessarily accurate.


I don't understand what you mean by "popular house rules aren't necessarily accurate" house rules are house rules if they were exact copies of the official rules then they would be 100% accurate but then they wouldn't be house rules, much like the "one search per room" isn't a house rule (popular or otherwise) it is an official rule. As ZenithFleet pointed out, the rules for HQ aren't all located in the rulebook, there is additional information in the Quest Books, the cards, the screen, and various other components and the number of those components provided. Multiple instructions within the quest books state things along the lines of "any player who searches this room for treasure will find a Spear" or "any player who searches this room for treasure will find Borin's Armour" as only ONE Spear card and ONE Borin's Armour card, you can only search once.

I've never yet met a player proud of the fact that his hero is equipped with every possible equipment card despite the fact he has never progressed any further than the first room of The Rescue of Sir Ragnar but instead has repeatedly searched that room only, before leaving the dungeon, spending his gold on equipment, then rinsed and repeat!
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Re: EU 1st, 2nd editions vs. NA (and remake) Rules revisited

Postby Kurgan » February 13th, 2025, 10:14 am

I don't want this to turn into a debate about which rules are best, or a competition about who knows the most about the official rules. I didn't communicate very clearly by using the term "house rule...accurate" there, thanks. What I meant to communicate is that even if a bunch of people report playing the game a certain way, that's not a guarantee that this was the intended way, according to the designers (who can make mistakes too, obviously). Yes, it's possible for a person to misread the rules, or to confuse a house rule for the official rule, even to convince others to do the same. Nothing wrong with that, but it does take a bit of work to get around each of our personal biases to see what was actually there, whether it was ambiguous or not. It's more of a challenge for me to sit down and just read the booklet, quests, cards, as a whole and not leap to later clarifications and other editions to see some more developed or fleshed out set (which is more what you do when you are running a campaign).

I certainly have my own biases that I've read into the NA edition I grew up playing, and I get confused between the various editions I didn't play, and getting feedback from players is always helpful, hence my presentation of this thread. If all I cared about was making my own preferred house rules, I wouldn't need to post anything. I certainly am hoping people correct me in terms of facts, even if we disagree on everything else when it comes to "what is best."

The "Vs." in the title is more about comparing differences, not a judgement over which ought to be used to create a new hybrid ruleset this time, even if the info helps someone else do just that!

It's very possible to "grind gold" in 1st edition HeroQuest, at least I did that in the '91 PC game (even though it does permit only one search per room). But what is a tedious, but very possible way to gain an advantage in a single player video game, tends to work very poorly at a table run by other people, who will be very bored with these antics and are unlikely to tolerate them for long, and will surely pressure you to move onto the next quest as a more fun way to do that, or outright put a stop to something that is dragging down the fun for the group. I can imagine players of the Japanese edition camped in a room, in the beginner stages, trying to get their dying party back from the brink of failure using "first aid" over and over again though, but that's the downside of not playing well.


much like the "one search per room" isn't a house rule (popular or otherwise) it is an official rule. As ZenithFleet pointed out, the rules for HQ aren't all located in the rulebook, there is additional information in the Quest Books, the cards, the screen, and various other components and the number of those components provided. Multiple instructions within the quest books state things along the lines of "any player who searches this room for treasure will find a Spear" or "any player who searches this room for treasure will find Borin's Armour" as only ONE Spear card and ONE Borin's Armour card, you can only search once.


Speaking of first edition... that seems like a good argument. I agree the quest book may implement the rules differently than are spelled out in the rulebook. What about when there isn't a special treasure designated in a room?


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Re: EU 1st, 2nd editions vs. NA (and remake) Rules revisited

Postby Bareheaded Warrior » February 14th, 2025, 6:25 am

I'm not saying that the quest book may implement the rules differently than are spelled out in the rulebook, I'm saying that you have to consider all the contents of the game box provided (rules of play booklet, cards, quest book, screen, components etc) to determine the complete rule set of the game. The example I provided shows why only one search for treasure is indicated in a single room, I don't see anything provided within the box that suggests that an exception would apply to that general rule when there isn't a special treasure designated in a room, do you?

Why assume that an exception exists when no exception is stated?
:skull: = one hit
:blackshield: = one hit & pushback
:whiteshield: = cancels one hit

HQ versions: "Original" - 1989 1st edition & 1990 2nd edition, "Remake" - 1990 NA remake & 2021 reprint

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FAQs, Errata & Clarifications for the Original Editions
HQ Common Notification System

1BP = :goblin: :orc: :skeleton: :zombie:
2BP = :fimir: :mummy: :chaoswarrior:
3BP = :gargoyle:


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Re: EU 1st, 2nd editions vs. NA (and remake) Rules revisited

Postby Kurgan » February 14th, 2025, 12:01 pm

Agente Cooper wrote:a detail that almost no one comments on, and for me it is the biggest difference between versions. In the European version, when you search for a trap, you not only place the secret doors, but they also open. This creates a small risk when doing this action, which is lost in the American version. In the American version it is simply absurd not to look for traps before doing any other search.


Good catch with that one too. I have some updating to do!


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