Line of Sight

[HispaZargon]

Hi, thinking again about this diagram... trying to justify what is explained there.

Line_of_Sight.jpg

Have you noticed that the Orc in blue is in the line of sight of the Elf if we apply the "looking down a corridor" official rule?

I mean, imagine there is a door and a wall just above de Elf in the picture, in the middle of the corridor as shown below in red colour (imaginary door and wall). If we apply the rule "looking down the corridor", the Orc may be in the line of sight of the Elf without counting as an action so the rulebook picture fits with such rule and the Elf can see the Orc (see green warrow).

Line_of_Sight_v2.jpg

I other words, if such Orc could be in the Elf's line of sight if the Elf were inside a room adjacent to a door and the Orc in a corridor, why it should not be in the line of sight if both are in the same corridor? It wouldn't have sense so such orc then may be considered in the line of sight.

The only problem I see is the straight-line-between-squares-centers rule text which is confusing but the rulebook diagram fits with the other "looking" rules described in the rulebook. I think the wording of such "A Good Rule of Thumb" (is it a joke???) in the rulebook may be considered an errata since it does not match with what is indicated in the diagram.

[Nlinindoll]

Hi, in my homebrew rules, I make a difference between "see" and "be in the line of sight":

For me a hero can "see" everything inside a corridor or a room if the hero is inside that corridor or room or the hero is "looking down a corridor" through an opened door or from a corner between corridors. I consider monsters or heroes previously placed there cannot block what can be seen inside the room/corridor like furniture, walls, doors, or other monsters/heroes. If a monster can be "seen" by a hero means that such monster does not allow the hero to do any searching task. Additionally, if a moster can be "seen" by a hero, it also means that such monster can be ONLY the target of the hero's spells that 'common sense' tells a straight line between the hero and the monster is not required (for example, Sleep or Tempest could be casted but Ball of Flame or Fire of Wrath may not). This also means that such monster cannot be the target for any missile or throwing weapon in any case. The same applies in case of monsters.

However, in the other hand for me, a hero/monster "is in the line of sight" of other hero/monster when its position strictly shows compliance with the line of sight rules described in the rulebook, including the "looking down a corridor" rule for line of sight. In this case, those miniatures can be "seen" as described in previous paragraph but they ALSO are "in the line of sight", so they can be the target for every missile weapon or spell. Then, other miniatures can block the "line of sight" of a hero but they cannot block what the hero "sees" behind them. The same applies in case of monsters.

Of course this interpretation is not fully effective but I think solves 95% of the unclear cases.

This is the way I've always played it as well.... agree 100%.

[HispaZargon]

Moreover... in my homebrew rules (again...), I consider that the Dwarf and Goblins behind a table, throne or similar height's furniture can be "seen" by any miniature placed at the opposite side of the table or throne but they are not in the "line of sight" of such miniature. Therefore, they are considered "in cover" against missile or throwing weapons and spells which require a clear line of sight. I apply this rule in order to give the Dwarf some advantage according to his height and give him more gamming personality.

[arntisdale]

So like the difference between "aware of their presence" vs. "have a clear shot to target them."

YEEEEEEeeees! That's all in other words

I like this.
Line of Sight is required to hit a target with a projectile (or projectile-like) attack.
Seeing is required to hit a target with some affect that is non-projectile.

I think making LoS required for all matters of targeting is simpler, but I could see this working.

[arntisdale]

Moreover... in my homebrew rules (again...), I consider that the Dwarf and Goblins behind a table, throne or similar height's furniture can be "seen" by any miniature placed at the opposite side of the table or throne but they are not in the "line of sight" of such miniature. Therefore, they are considered "in cover" against missile or throwing weapons and spells which require a clear line of sight. I apply this rule in order to give the Dwarf some advantage according to his height and give him more gamming personality.

What's your homebrew rules say about being "in cover"?

[HispaZargon]

Moreover... in my homebrew rules (again...), I consider that the Dwarf and Goblins behind a table, throne or similar height's furniture can be "seen" by any miniature placed at the opposite side of the table or throne but they are not in the "line of sight" of such miniature. Therefore, they are considered "in cover" against missile or throwing weapons and spells which require a clear line of sight. I apply this rule in order to give the Dwarf some advantage according to his height and give him more gamming personality.

What's your homebrew rules say about being "in cover"?

In 'cover' just means it may be 'seen' but it cannot be targeted from any projectile or spell than requires straight line of sight. Nothing too complex, that's all. It's not a big advantage for the Dwarf but there it is.

[santiagov94]

Hello everyone, I have a question about the line of sight. When a player is in a corridor with a few monsters up ahead of him, is the hero supposed to see the blocked hall behind the monster? I have always shown everything in the hallway, like all monsters and the blocked tiles, but this kind of confuses me about the whole line of sight concept. So is "seeing" what's in the hallway supposed to be different from line of sight? I mean always consider these as dark halls and they shouldn't know if there is a dead end ahead of them until they get a little closer and go past those monsters?

[cornixt]

I had similar thoughts when I first played, santiagov, but I can't think of a quest where it really would have made any difference. There was one instance where it would have saved the players one turn of walking.

A game this simple doesn't need complicated line of sight rules. I my updated quest rules I got rid of them in favour of being able to see everything in the room or next to the
doorway.

[Kurgan]

I think of the EU game as being the "autotarget" system for missile attacks, while the NA rules are the "laser pointer" target version.

[Daedalus]

Hello everyone, I have a question about the line of sight. When a player is in a corridor with a few monsters up ahead of him, is the hero supposed to see the blocked hall behind the monster? I have always shown everything in the hallway, like all monsters and the blocked tiles, but this kind of confuses me about the whole line of sight concept. So is "seeing" what's in the hallway supposed to be different from line of sight? I mean always consider these as dark halls and they shouldn't know if there is a dead end ahead of them until they get a little closer and go past those monsters?

In answer to a fan question fielded by Avalon Hill at the second HQ Pulsecon panel, they intended to clarify that revealed monsters aren't considered to block line of sight when placing them on the gameboard . . . unfortunately, they neglected to implement thier declaration in the new Instruction Booklet.

So yes, continue to place that blocked square marker knowing that AH says it's OK, but there's not a word to confirm it in the rules. Or play rules as written and only place the nearest monster (because of distant darkness)--it's your call.