Is Witch Lord considered undead versus the spirit blade?

[The Admiral]

anyone who once was dead and is still moving for me is to be considered an undead.
He has mind points because he is a special undead, a better one.

Heroes revived by the Elixir of Life would be a clear exception to this... (or the resurrections of heroes in the Japanese edition of the Game System, whether by Temples or the Talisman). To further complicate it, Heroes can have their mind points reduced to zero and go into "shock" in some official quests (rather than dying as they do in others).

A Hero revived by an elixir of life was dead before, and then is alive after use. They do not move around in an undead state. They move around because they are alive again.

Undead have 0 MP because they have no mind. Being in shock is a clearly explained rule in which a living Hero temporarily has no MP. Heroes who die when reduced to 0 MP are just that, dead. In neither state are they considered undead.

I see no confusion in any of this.

The Japanese version is a little crazy in my opinion, and is very different to the version we play.

[Kurgan]

A Hero revived by an elixir of life was dead before, and then is alive after use. They do not move around in an undead state.

That gives me an idea...

[The Admiral]

A Hero revived by an elixir of life was dead before, and then is alive after use. They do not move around in an undead state.

That gives me an idea...

Raise the dead spell?

[Kurgan]

A Hero revived by an elixir of life was dead before, and then is alive after use. They do not move around in an undead state.

That gives me an idea...

Raise the dead spell?

You can bring your friends back, but they become the creeping undead! Shadows of their former selves... with the possibility of being switched more easily in loyalty to Chaos. Maybe if they get a low die roll, they wander off or have some other unintended effect other than the one they intended. If the Hero who revived them dies, they go completely rogue and will attack anything that comes near them. They become unable to sleep, sensitive to sunlight and holy objects. Slowly but surely the call of darkness is drawing them away. Perhaps what is needed is a special rare potion to set them right, before its too late and they turn on their former friends! Sometimes dead IS better...

[wallydubbs]

anyone who once was dead and is still moving for me is to be considered an undead.
He has mind points because he is a special undead, a better one.

Heroes revived by the Elixir of Life would be a clear exception to this... (or the resurrections of heroes in the Japanese edition of the Game System, whether by Temples or the Talisman). To further complicate it, Heroes can have their mind points reduced to zero and go into "shock" in some official quests (rather than dying as they do in others).

A Hero revived by an elixir of life was dead before, and then is alive after use. They do not move around in an undead state. They move around because they are alive again.

Undead have 0 MP because they have no mind. Being in shock is a clearly explained rule in which a living Hero temporarily has no MP. Heroes who die when reduced to 0 MP are just that, dead. In neither state are they considered undead.

I see no confusion in any of this.

No, but you sorta contradicted yourself with the underlined statement; the Witch Lord doesn't act like an undead either.

[Kurgan]

Exactly! He's something else... so he's undead technically, but a different class, perhaps a Lich, as someone else in another thread once suggested, sorry I forget who you were. For HQ purposes, he's a different type of monster entirely. I ran into a similar problem with my new Vampire character (he's not "undead" for purposes of not making him instantly destructible with holy water, though that would be hilarious).

[The Admiral]

anyone who once was dead and is still moving for me is to be considered an undead.
He has mind points because he is a special undead, a better one.

Heroes revived by the Elixir of Life would be a clear exception to this... (or the resurrections of heroes in the Japanese edition of the Game System, whether by Temples or the Talisman). To further complicate it, Heroes can have their mind points reduced to zero and go into "shock" in some official quests (rather than dying as they do in others).

A Hero revived by an elixir of life was dead before, and then is alive after use. They do not move around in an undead state. They move around because they are alive again.

Undead have 0 MP because they have no mind. Being in shock is a clearly explained rule in which a living Hero temporarily has no MP. Heroes who die when reduced to 0 MP are just that, dead. In neither state are they considered undead.

I see no confusion in any of this.

No, but you sorta contradicted yourself with the underlined statement; the Witch Lord doesn't act like an undead either.

If I had been discussing the WL, maybe, but I was discussing the points raised by Kurgan on how he perceived possible confusion between the undead and the alive. As previously discussed, the Witch Lord, as a mega boss, doesn't fit as neatly into the undead category . Hence this whole thread.

[Pancho]

I’m laughing that this thread is still going and showing no sign of reaching a consensus. I’m beginning to see why a game of Heroquest can last Hours and hours for some players

Please carry on, very entertaining.

[Stig]

Please carry on, very entertaining.

Happy to oblige

I think the question of the Witch Lord's dead/alive status might be a red herring, as in the Warhammer World, the "Undead" included Vampires and Ghouls, neither of which ever died, but demonstrated necrotic proclivities, ie drinking blood / hating the light / eating flesh etc.

Going by the imagery alone, skulls, tombs, reawakening etc all put together suggests "Undead" imagery and GW would most likely have had the Witch Lord as part of the Undead army as opposed to any other.

[The Admiral]

an bring your friends back, but they become the creeping undead! Shadows of their former selves... with the possibility of being switched more easily in loyalty to Chaos. Maybe if they get a low die roll, they wander off or have some other unintended effect other than the one they intended. If the Hero who revived them dies, they go completely rogue and will attack anything that comes near them. They become unable to sleep, sensitive to sunlight and holy objects. Slowly but surely the call of darkness is drawing them away. Perhaps what is needed is a special rare potion to set them right, before its too late and they turn on their former friends! Sometimes dead IS better...

I like those sort of quirky things introduced into quests occasionally. A while back a group of our Heroes teamed up with a Chaos Warrior to fight a common enemy. He stayed with them afterwards with an ever increasing random chance, unknown to the Heroes, that he would turn on them, as he did eventually.