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Is Witch Lord considered undead versus the spirit blade?

Discuss the Rules of HeroQuest as set out by Milton Bradley Game Systems and Quest Packs.

Is Witch Lord considered undead versus the spirit blade?

Postby Jalapenotrellis » August 18th, 2019, 4:10 am

I would assume yes, the witch Lord is undead (locked in a tomb) so the heroes can roll 4 combat dice against him when using the spirit blade broadsword. I found it peculiar the card doesn't specifically state this and only refers to zombies, skeletons, and mummies. The witch Lord quest pack picture shows him as a skeleton.

by the way, I have decided to not make any of the falling block traps in quest 12 and 13 disarmable. They seem to all have special notes and be part of the flavor of the quest.

Last, do y'all have any tips/strategy for using the witch Lord against the heroes? Obviously keep him away from the player with the Spirit blade since he can be 1-shot if can roll 4 dice. I'd assume try to land command against the player with the Spirit blade, especially if the barbarian wields it. Otherwise keep fear on him. Looks like a fun last 3 quests of the Game System...buahaha
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Re: Is Witch Lord considered undead versus the spirit blade?

Postby The Admiral » August 18th, 2019, 7:26 am

The quest notes state that the Witch Lord can only be harmed by the Spirit Blade and Fire Magic.


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Re: Is Witch Lord considered undead versus the spirit blade?

Postby Count Mohawk » August 18th, 2019, 10:04 am

The Witch Lord is pretty obviously undead, and the Spirit Blade is his logical weakness, so it makes sense to allow its user to roll 4 dice against him.
On a more meta level, the Witch Lord rolls 6 defend dice. If the Spirit Blade only hits against him with 3 dice, taking him down is gonna be that much harder - especially with all the magic the Witch Lord can use to mess with the fight in his favor!

As for making the Witch Lord harder to beat? There's a thread for that.


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Re: Is Witch Lord considered undead versus the spirit blade?

Postby Uncle_Elvis » August 19th, 2019, 12:23 am

No. Spirit Blade's description excludes the Witch Lord. Giving the Spirit Blade wielder that extra die, pass through spell, and the double attack boost pretty much turns the battle into a one hit deal. Unless you, like I do, double his hit points or let him cast multiple spells.


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Re: Is Witch Lord considered undead versus the spirit blade?

Postby The Admiral » August 19th, 2019, 4:16 am

Count Mohawk wrote:The Witch Lord is pretty obviously undead, and the Spirit Blade is his logical weakness, so it makes sense to allow its user to roll 4 dice against him.


Absolutely!


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Re: Is Witch Lord considered undead versus the spirit blade?

Postby wallydubbs » August 19th, 2019, 1:49 pm

I totally understand and respect everyone's opinion on this, but I'm gonna have to be the odd man out:
Categorically speaking, how do you distinguish undead? Granted he's skeletal in appearance and was awakened in a tomb. But it doesn't seem like he was dead the whole time and came back to life, there was a Magical seal that kept the Witch Lord confined to this room.

I do not consider him undead because A. It is not specified (Even Kalvenos from Frozen Horror is granted the distinction); B. He has mind points (which all other undead do not have); and C. He can cast spells (which no other undead can do, asides from homemade quests); D. Holy Water (or Sacred Water) isn't counted among the list of weapons and spells that could harm him in RotWL.
Yes, the Spirit Blade IS the only thing that can harm him, but it can harm anything, just gives you a bonus against undead. Plus I'd like to keep it more challenging for the heroes.
This in turn will simplify the same questions regarding sentience of Skullmar and Kassandra.


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Re: Is Witch Lord considered undead versus the spirit blade?

Postby lestodante » August 19th, 2019, 2:28 pm

anyone who once was dead and is still moving for me is to be considered an undead.
He has mind points because he is a special undead, a better one.


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Re: Is Witch Lord considered undead versus the spirit blade?

Postby Jalapenotrellis » August 19th, 2019, 4:33 pm

wallydubbs wrote:I totally understand and respect everyone's opinion on this, but I'm gonna have to be the odd man out:
Categorically speaking, how do you distinguish undead? Granted he's skeletal in appearance and was awakened in a tomb. But it doesn't seem like he was dead the whole time and came back to life, there was a Magical seal that kept the Witch Lord confined to this room.

I do not consider him undead because A. It is not specified (Even Kalvenos from Frozen Horror is granted the distinction); B. He has mind points (which all other undead do not have); and C. He can cast spells (which no other undead can do, asides from homemade quests); D. Holy Water (or Sacred Water) isn't counted among the list of weapons and spells that could harm him in RotWL.
Yes, the Spirit Blade IS the only thing that can harm him, but it can harm anything, just gives you a bonus against undead. Plus I'd like to keep it more challenging for the heroes.
This in turn will simplify the same questions regarding sentience of Skullmar and Kassandra.


Thanks for posting. I think this is a cogent argument I'll adopt and follow.
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Re: Is Witch Lord considered undead versus the spirit blade?

Postby mitchiemasha » August 19th, 2019, 4:51 pm

lestodante wrote:anyone who once was dead and is still moving for me is to be considered an undead.
He has mind points because he is a special undead, a better one.


Agreed. They're all a kind of undead... A normal person is resurrected as a zombie, skeleton 0M, non of you exists in that husk... A powerful person who transcends death or is resurrected, a total different story. All kinds of crazy magic that embodies their spirit. With some spirits been able to embody any husk, skeletal frame, as long as it's dead, undead. Other spirits twist, warp the mind of the living, possess their bodies, not undead (although the spirit might be). I'm pretty sure the Witch Lord transcended death in someway, undead. A chaos warrior is where it gets very grey, laying somewhere between the 2. Which could depend on each instance of that warrior, if one wanted to get into some serious story writing and lore, way too much for the needs of HQ.


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Re: Is Witch Lord considered undead versus the spirit blade?

Postby Stig » August 19th, 2019, 5:00 pm

wallydubbs wrote:C. He can cast spells (which no other undead can do, asides from homemade quests)


If we take that Heroquest is set in the warhammer world, the undead have some of the most powerful magicians, e.g. Nagash. Necromancers are also magicians.


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