Dead hero, starter weapon sell back

[Jalapenotrellis]

My new group just played quest 1: the Trial. During the quest, the barbarian and dwarf died. Since the wizard was in line of sight in the corridor, I allowed salvage of equipment (without having to pass over the square the other character died on, which probably should be required, but the quest book just talks about dying in a room allowing salvage of equipment).
I figured it's fair to let them sell back some of the starting equipment at half price even though the next characters will also start with equipment. Seems like a sneaky way to get more gold from the first quest, since most likely people will die.

[mitchiemasha]

The selling of weapons rule we use specifically includes the word "BOUGHT" for that very reason.

Equipment: Bought can be sold at 50% of cost.

In my armoury the wording is

EU prices, buys back at 50% of cost. Broken weapons are worthless!!!

The words "BUYS BACK" automatically exclude scavenging start weapons.

The "BROKEN" mechanic works like this, if you had a Broadsword and rolled 3 Black shields in combat, it's damaged, BROKEN. The Hero reverts to their Start weapon Value or another weapon. The way this all works at the table can be viewed as, you either always have your start weapon or the Broken weapon is being used at your start weapon value. Not that it matters mechanically how it is viewed.

I'd allow retrieving of Artefacts but a surviving Hero scavenging all the dead Heroes weapons could get a game braking early boost. As retrieving weapons isn't in the original rules, it's easy to view this as BROKEN, the Hero is dead... it failed them!!!

It's also worth noting that we don't see the Barbarians start of 3Cd6 as the Broadsword. He has a rubbish 2Cd6 sword as does the ELF but +1Cd6 in adjacent combat. We also allow dual wielding of 2 rubbish swords, buying an additional Short Sword, 2 attacks in 1 turn, not diagonal attack.

[Maurice76]

As long as the EW (you?) is happy with it, it's all good.

It's questionable whether The Trial is a good starter quest. In one way, there's no harm done when Heroes die, since they're still wet behind their ears. It is harsh and punishing, but the consequences in the long run are non-existent as a result. At the same time, it may push off new players who might think that all quests are going to be such slaughters - while The Trial is probably one of the hardest quests in the base game. And that's even without regarding the equipment the Heroes are assembling as they move from quest to quest, making subsequent quests easier, while they start The Trial fresh.

Somewhere I read a suggestion to save The Trial for a later time; start with The Maze instead and then work through the base game. Eventually, the Heroes would be able to achieve the title of Champion of the Empire, which the game rules state would be after they complete a certain number of quests. Instead of doing it that way, The Trial can be inserted at this point as a benchmark for the Heroes. Passing it means they get the Champion title. Some further fan rules I've read are that the Champion title allows Heroes to start hiring henchmen, which might make it worthwhile do earn that title other than just looking good on their resume .

[mitchiemasha]

The last thing we want is players realising that allowing themselves to be killed can give their friend an extra advantage. Making that sacrifice only to return back as they started.

[mitchiemasha]

It's questionable whether The Trial is a good starter quest.

Agreed. It's great as the go to quest if the game makes a random appearance but if sitting down with a group intending to continue, not so good!

Eventually, the Heroes would be able to achieve the title of Champion of the Empire, which the game rules state would be after they complete a certain number of quests. Instead of doing it that way, The Trial can be inserted at this point as a benchmark for the Heroes.

That's the best idea I've heard in a long time. Simple and fits perfectly. The kind of mods I love.

Edit: I'd read about saving the Trial for later but not the champion connection. Keeping the logic of it being a TRIAL!

[The Admiral]

The last thing we want is players realising that allowing themselves to be killed can give their friend an extra advantage. Making that sacrifice only to return back as they started.

Totally agree. We don't allow surviving Heroes to pick up all the stuff of a dead Hero, as they can just give it all to the new Hero on the next quest and there is no real penalty for death. We think a new Hero must earn their place. Therefore, when a Hero dies, all his equipment, except for artifacts, is considered destroyed and is unusable/unsaleable by other Heroes.

[SirRick]

I have no problem letting heroes sell their starting weapons, as long as they are honest about it. If they try and kill heroes on purpose for money, you could punish them by giving them weaker heroes:

"Sorry guys, your new barbarian only has 7 body points and 1 mind point. So many heroes died lately, that Mentor really has to scrape the bottom of the barrel for candidates now."

The heroes should be able to keep their dead comrade's stuff, or at least anything they can use, like a crossbow, chain mail or whatever. If you are halfway through a difficult quest book, the other heroes may need that stuff to finish the current quest. Maybe the new hero gets whats left in exchange for the veterans getting dibs on any special treasures that are found later.

[mitchiemasha]

that Mentor really has to scrape the bottom of the barrel for candidates now."

Nice one, lol! but how does giving them 1 less body and Mind work against them killing each other or letting themselves die to milk starting weapons for gold. Doesn't that make it easier?

I'm not sure it would go down well nerfing starting heroes. It's the fastest way to upset players and for them to get all rule booky and serious.

You play US version so recovery is in the book. The twist on artefacts is important but for standard weapons I much prefer... If I'd boshed you to death with a big club, meat clever or axe, there's pretty much going to be nothing left to that chain mail, your gold's going to be everywhere, sword snapped in 2 or blunt as cheese... I suppose you could use the helmet as a shield! I do like the idea of killing an Ork later game and it dropping something lost earlier. I'd do that with a bought weapon or 2 but definitely not start weapons.

In my experience the Heroes get way too powerful way too quick, I'm not against this but I much prefer to see things step them back a peg or 2 rather than a constant climb.

[Jalapenotrellis]

that Mentor really has to scrape the bottom of the barrel for candidates now."

Nice one, lol! but how does giving them 1 less body and Mind work against them killing each other or letting themselves die to milk starting weapons for gold. Doesn't that make it easier?

I'm not sure it would go down well nerfing starting heroes. It's the fastest way to upset players and for them to get all rule booky and serious.

You play US version so recovery is in the book. The twist on artefacts is important but I much prefer... If I'd boshed you to death with a big club, meat clever or axe, there's pretty much going to be nothing left to that chain mail, your gold's going to be everywhere, sword snapped in 2 or blunt as cheese... I suppose you could use the helmet as a shield! I do like the idea of killing an Ork later game and it dropping something lost earlier.

In my experience the Heroes get way too powerful way too quick, I'm not against this but I much prefer to see things step them back a peg or 2 rather than a constant climb.

If you play by the rules in the American version, it seems that heroes can pick up any items as long as they are in the room or corridor in which the player dies. It does not say that they need to pass over the hero in order for this to happen though. Perhaps it doesn't later expansions?

I agree the heroes get very powerful in the game system. But they kind of need to because the expansions are incredibly difficult. I mean if you even look at some of the quests, here is just have a chance to die in certain rooms. There are also quests where they will prune out your equipment and or gold. If heroes have extra gold they can always buy more of the expansion potions or items.

[mitchiemasha]

Yeah "recovery is in the book"... I was also editing my post whilst you replied. I needed to be clearer on a few things.