How do you handle Fear vs Courage

[j_dean80]

Think of it this way...

Barbarian has 3 attack
Wizard casts Courage on him to give "2 extra" attack dice.
Now total of 5

Chaos Warlock comes with Fear at the Barbarian, reducing to 1.
Now total of 3.

The Wizards affects of magic aren't overridden by the Chaos Warlock who is obviously an inferior magic wielder. The Wizard's spell is still valid.

[knightkrawler]

Barbarian has 3 attack
Wizard casts Courage on him to give "2 extra" attack dice.
Now total of 5

Chaos Warlock comes with Fear at the Barbarian, reducing to 1.
Now total of 3.

Simply wrong. It reduces to "1". Not by "minus 2" or "2 less". "1".

[Gold Bearer]

Barbarian has 3 attack
Wizard casts Courage on him to give "2 extra" attack dice.
Now total of 5

Chaos Warlock comes with Fear at the Barbarian, reducing to 1.
Now total of 3.

Simply wrong. It reduces to "1". Not by "minus 2" or "2 less". "1".

No, you're simply wrong. Like I said:

By that logic you can't raise you defence dice with chainmail in the US version if you already have a shield or helmet, and if you have both it would lower it from four to three.

Fear is a base stat of 1, courage raises it by 2 so you get three attack dice, it makes no difference what in order they're cast.

[knightkrawler]

Your example is illogical. You don't add the +1 to your base defend score, but to the score given to you by the chain mail.
+1 is relative.
1 is absolute.
If you don't understand the difference, then ... well... I can't add anything of value to this discussion anymore.
Everyone play it as you like. I won't explain it with apples to a 4-year-old.

[Gold Bearer]

I don't know why you're having so much trouble understanding this.

Chainmail gives a flat three defence dice, plate armour and Borin's armour give a flat four. By your reasoning if you already have a shield and/or helmet when you get one of those armours then they would override the +1s for the sheild and helmet and make them pointless. You'd have to sell them for half price back to the armoury and then buy them again for them to work, or at least give them to another hero for them to give straight back. That's just silly.

Obviously the bonuses for the shield and helmet apply in addition to the base defence dice given by armour, so the same applies with a base attack of one dice that's raised by two regardless of when it was raised.

[knightkrawler]

I don't know why you're having so much trouble understanding this.

Chainmail gives a flat three defence dice, plate armour and Borin's armour give a flat four. By your reasoning if you already have a shield and/or helmet when you get one of those armours then they would override the +1s for the sheild and helmet and make them pointless. You'd have to sell them for half price back to the armoury and then buy them again for them to work, or at least give them to another hero for them to give straight back. That's just silly.

Obviously the bonuses for the shield and helmet apply in addition to the base defence dice given by armour, so the same applies with a base attack of one dice that's raised by two regardless of when it was raised.

Chainmail and Plate Armour override the basic two defend dice. Shield and helmet add one to the overridden value OR if you don't have one of Chainmail or Plate Armour add one to the basic two you have in the beginning. As equipment cards are NOT one-use and discarded after, they apply when in possession. So order of application doesn't matter. It's one absolute value plus several modifers. The writers chose absolute and relative numbers to make it impossible for you wear chainmail over plat, for example.

When applying two spells, order DOES matter because using and discarding cards simply works that way when they are one-use.
And from that conclusion follows that there's a difference between the orders in which Fear and Courage are applied.

If you don't want that difference, re-word Fear into something like "...loses two attack dice, but may still attack with at least one die...".

[Gold Bearer]

Chainmail and Plate Armour override the basic two defend dice.

Right, in exactly the same way that the fear spell overrides their attack dice.

Shield and helmet add one to the overridden value OR if you don't have one of Chainmail or Plate Armour add one to the basic two you have in the beginning.

Right, in exactly the same way that the courage spell adds two dice to the overriden value or adds two dice if it hasn't been overriden with fear.

As equipment cards are NOT one-use and discarded after, they apply when in possession. So order of application doesn't matter.

Number of uses has absolutely nothing to do with it.

When applying two spells, order DOES matter because using and discarding cards simply works that way when they are one-use.

Why, because you say so?

[knightkrawler]

OK. Apples, then.
(...Oh, I'm well aware I'll probably get a lot of flak for the style of this post, and worse, people will counter-argue my argument out of spite because I'll be sounding condescending now...)

You have three apples. These are "your" apples.
First, you're told to take another two apples from the basket. Now you have five apples.
Then, you're told to put away all but one apple.
You are left with one apple.

You have three apples. These are "your" apples.
First, you're told to put all but one of your apples back into the basket. This leaves you with one apple.
Then, you may take two apples from the basket.
You have three apples.

Two one-off effects applied in different orders.
___________________________________________________________

The equipment/artefact card analogy:

You have two apples.
Daddy tells you you may replace those two by four different apples. Now you have four apples.
At the same time, Mommy tells you you may take another two apples from the basket at the same time.
You have six apples because daddy's and mommy's instructions apply.

Two or more permanent effects that at any given time stack onto each other, as per the wordings and grammar in the card texts - NOT because I say so.

[Gold Bearer]

Everyone play it as you like. I won't explain it with apples to a 4-year-old.

Well you clearly struggle with anything more advanced.

[knightkrawler]

Everyone play it as you like. I won't explain it with apples to a 4-year-old.

Well you clearly struggle with anything more advanced.

I did use the apple parallel (The Parapple), editing my previous post, possibly after you posted this.
You are an awesome debater, as we all have seen time and time again, and I must at this point give up before someone gets emotional...