Ye Olde Inn

[This post and the following 16 posts were moved from the Incorrectly Played Rules topic on 8/23/16. The first quote was copied and added for continuity.]

mitchiemasha wrote:So... falling block traps UK edition. By the rules the dwarf and tool kit can remove these.

Page 12 5th line

Pit traps and falling block traps are placed on the board when found

Dwarf...

you may remove any visible traps in the same room or corridor

As the quote still refers to the falling block trap as a trap even though it no longer is, technically the dwarf can remove this. The mechanic should state somewhere that the falling block is now no longer a trap, unless they want it to remain so.

The rest of the paragraph on page 12 goes on to say about the tool kit and the dwarf. How they can remove a trap from the board. As the opening line says "falling block traps are placed on the board", they can be removed. I guess thematically, if the tool kit holder was to attempt to remove the falling block trap, after it had fell, rolling a skull signifies more rocks falling on them.

Thanks to the Quest for the Spirit Blade, where falling block traps aren't falling block traps, we've never revealed falling block traps when searching, just simply pointing out the dangerous square, which we have to remember.

Also Barak Tor, which waits for the last Hero to pass. If the dwarf can remove this as the rules suggest, it break this quest feature. THOUGHTS???

Redav wrote:Once a falling block trap has been activated, the rock tile is placed but the trap no longer exists so I'd say the dwarf can't remove that

That's how sense would rule it and how we always played... But it's not wrote that way any where in the UK rule book. It clearly refers to falling block TRAPS being placed on the board and the next line states how the tool kit/Dwarf can remove any visible traps. If it had said falling block traps tiles yes but it still refers to it as a trap and it's on the board, visible.

So if the rule book was simple maths/algebra, they can be removed.

My main problem is how it's the very next line and nothing is said anywhere to differentiate.

Edit: Just to be clear... We always played they can not be removed and how we'll always play. I'm simply highlighting.

Once the trap is sprung it is no longer a trap. It is now a pile of rocks.

The Admiral wrote:Once the trap is sprung it is no longer a trap. It is now a pile of rocks.

Yes, I'm aware of that but people are overlooking the point I'm trying to make.

I didn't. I know exactly what you mean and you're right. It's another big honking glitch in EU 2nd edition.

The Admiral wrote:Once the trap is sprung it is no longer a trap. It is now a pile of rocks.

The rules mitchiemasha refers to clearly state otherwise.

Thank you knightkrawler. I was beginning to think it was only me.

knightkrawler wrote:I didn't. I know exactly what you mean and you're right. It's another big honking glitch in EU 2nd edition.

Same here and I agree that it's poorly written and misleading but everyone agrees that HQ was never play-tested or proofread particularly well. I'm just saying that there's no falling block tile that can be placed therefore the only thing that can be placed are rocks and not a trap. If there was a trap tile that could be placed then yes, it could be removed by the dwarf or tool kit.

Redav wrote:

knightkrawler wrote:I didn't. I know exactly what you mean and you're right. It's another big honking glitch in EU 2nd edition.

Same here and I agree that it's poorly written and misleading but everyone agrees that HQ was never play-tested or proofread particularly well. I'm just saying that there's no falling block tile that can be placed therefore the only thing that can be placed are rocks and not a trap. If there was a trap tile that could be placed then yes, it could be removed by the dwarf or tool kit.

The exact words for the triggering of a falling rock trap in EU v2 are "When a character player moves through a square containing a falling block symbol, a block will fall. It will land into the adjacent square marked with the arrow on the Quest map, blocking the way." Of course, they don't describe what kind of tile to use to represent the block, which is what leads to the above confusion. The US version is clearer about it: they label the correct tile to use as a "falling block trap tile", and they explicitly state that fallen blocks can be neither Disarmed, passed through nor Jumped.

Count Mohawk wrote:

Redav wrote:

knightkrawler wrote:I didn't. I know exactly what you mean and you're right. It's another big honking glitch in EU 2nd edition.

Same here and I agree that it's poorly written and misleading but everyone agrees that HQ was never play-tested or proofread particularly well. I'm just saying that there's no falling block tile that can be placed therefore the only thing that can be placed are rocks and not a trap. If there was a trap tile that could be placed then yes, it could be removed by the dwarf or tool kit.

The exact words for the triggering of a falling rock trap in EU v2 are "When a character player moves through a square containing a falling block symbol, a block will fall. It will land into the adjacent square marked with the arrow on the Quest map, blocking the way." Of course, they don't describe what kind of tile to use to represent the block, which is what leads to the above confusion. The US version is clearer about it: they label the correct tile to use as a "falling block trap tile", and they explicitly state that fallen blocks can be neither Disarmed, passed through nor Jumped.

The way the falling block traps are illustrated in the UK edition was confusing coming from the NA explanation. Weird to me that it's the adjacent tile, and not the tile itself where the rocks fall.

if it fell on you you're in big trouble. I think the main idea was they wanted them for blocking the way, not hurting you. Some fall behind some fall infront. Is this not the case in the US version? It's only in one Quest where they fall on you, but no tile is placed, rocks fall every time. The helmet has the benefit of reducing rolls, probably why in the UK edition it costs more than the shield.

I suppose it doesn't have to be adjacent. They could place the block and arrow icons further apart.

Count Mohawk, read the 2nd paragraph on page 12. "Pittraps and falling block traps are placed on the board when found" This to me means searching for traps will trigger a falling block trap. As the paragraph before it states "trap tiles are only placed if found by a search or..." clearly clarifying what found means. it is this 1st section that causes the problem, with the separate section on pittraps stating nothing to overrule, clarify. So by UK rules, they can be removed but I don't believe they intended it to be that way.

There is no doubting the way that second paragraph is wrote... 1st line of paragraph "Pitraps and falling block traps are placed on the board when found" 3rd line of same paragraph "Trap tiles may be removed by any hero who has"

As for the difference between an end of the corridor tile and a trap tile, you know it's a trap tile as you will have explorable sections before it. The end of corridor, not so. And, because you triggered it.

mitchiemasha wrote:if it fell on you you're in big trouble. I think the main idea was they wanted them for blocking the way, not hurting you. Some fall behind some fall infront. Is this not the case in the US version? It's only in one Quest where they fall on you, but no tile is placed, rocks fall every time. The helmet has the benefit of reducing rolls, probably why in the UK edition it costs more than the shield.

I suppose it doesn't have to be adjacent. They could place the block and arrow icons further apart.

Count Mohawk, read the 2nd paragraph on page 12. "Pittraps and falling block traps are placed on the board when found" This to me means searching for traps will trigger a falling block trap. As the paragraph before it states "trap tiles are only placed if found by a search or..." clearly clarifying what found means. it is this 1st section that causes the problem, with the separate section on pittraps stating nothing to overrule, clarify. So by UK rules, they can be removed but I don't believe they intended it to be that way.

There is no doubting the way that second paragraph is wrote... 1st line of paragraph "Pitraps and falling block traps are placed on the board when found" 3rd line of same paragraph "Trap tiles may be removed by any hero who has"

As for the difference between an end of the corridor tile and a trap tile, you know it's a trap tile as you will have explorable sections before it. The end of corridor, not so. And, because you triggered it.

That's my interpretation, too. Sloppy writing and thus one of the reasons why I do what I do.