Ye Olde Inn

I was going through the equipment info in my core games (NA, UK and Greek) and spotted the following info, regarding the short sword and the broadsword.
I can't believe this didn't hit me before!
Any thoughts welcome.

UK Version
Short sword: Costs 150 gc. Roll 2 combat dice & allow for diagonal attack.
Broadsword: Costs 250 gc. Roll 3 combat dice.
Well, this makes sense. You wanna go for more attack power, you pay more for the broadsword. You wanna go for diagonal attack, you get the cheap short sword. Seems legit.

NA Version
Short Sword: Costs 150 gc. Roll 2 combat dice.
Broadsword: Costs 250 gc. Roll 3 combat dice.
The Broadsword is OK. But since the short sword can't be used by the wizard and since the barbarian, the dwarf and the elf all start with 2 or more combat dice in the first place...why would anyone buy the short sword? Seems like a total waste of money.

Greek Version
Short sword (Σπαθί): Costs 250 gc. Roll 3 combat dice.
Broadsword (Σπάθα): Costs 250 gc. Roll 2 combat dice.
Here we have quite the confusion. The short sword seems to have taken over the broadsword's abilities. The broadsword itself has the US short sword abilities while maintaining the same cost. No use for the broadsword here plus an extremely high cost. Greeks lost in translation I guess...

I'd like to point out that the above info are all official, not house rules or something. I fail to understand why would anyone go for the short sword in both the GR and NA versions. The UK version makes sense though.
What's your take on this matter?

US rules plus Rust can rid you of your starting two dice , and it's cheaper to replace the shortsword if you're low on cash.

Exactly. The UK shortsword only makes sense if you play one weapon per card because the spear is a shortsword and handaxe in one but all three are the same price. There's quite a few differences between the versions.

Dagger = 25gp (US only)
Staff = 100gp (different rules in the two versions)
Shield = 100gp Eu, 150gp US.
Helmet = 120gp Eu, 125gp US.
Short Sword = 150gp (different rules in the two versions)
Hand Axe = 150gp (Eu only)
Spear = 150gp (Eu only)
Bracers = 200gp (Eu 2nd ed only)
Tool Kit = 250gp
Broadsword = 250gp
Longsword = 350gp (US only)
Crossbow = 350gp
Cloak Of Protection = 350gp (Eu 2nd ed only)
Battleaxe = 400gp Eu, 450gp US.
Chainmail = 450gp Eu, 500gp US.
Plate Armour = 850gp.

The Greek one definitely doesn't make sense, for three reasons. Combat dice are the wrong way round, they shouldn't be the same price and a standard two combat dice weapon is pointless without the rust spell.

I never realized the short sword didn't attack diagonally in NA?!?
But yeah, both in UK and the Danish version the short sword allows diagonal attacks. It's basically the same as the staff, except more expensive.

Short Sword: Costs 150 - Attack diagonally - No wizard
Spear: Costs 150 - Attack diagonally - No wizard - can be thrown
Staff: Costs 100 - Attack diagonally - Yes wizard
Hand Axe: Costs 150 - No wizard - can be thrown

Why would you ever buy the Short Sword over the spear or staff?
The staff is cheaper, but can't be thrown.

Conclusion: Short Sword should cost 100 gc - or Spear should cost 200 gs? The prices are a mess. Some weapons objectively have better value.

Also in the Danish version the Browdsword allows you to roll 3 dice... in defence


Edit: had mixed "spear" and "staff" around.

Goblin-King wrote:I never realized the short sword didn't attack diagonally in NA?!?
But yeah, both in UK and the Danish version the short sword allows diagonal attacks. It's basically the same as the staff, except more expensive.

Short Sword: Costs 150 - Attack diagonally - No wizard
Staff: Costs 150 - Attack diagonally - No wizard - can be thrown
Spear: Costs 100 - Attack diagonally - Yes wizard
Hand Axe: Costs 150 - No wizard - can be thrown

Why would you ever buy the Short Sword over the spear or staff?
The staff is cheaper, but can't be thrown.

Conclusion: Short Sword should cost 100 gc - or Spear should cost 200 gs? The prices are a mess. Some weapons objectively have better value.

Also in the Danish version the Browdsword allows you to roll 3 dice... in defence

I think you got the Staff and Spear names mixed up. The staff costs 100 and can be used by the wizard. The spear costs 150, attacks diagonally and cannot be used by the wizard. Also, in the US version, it is a bit more clear since you can't use the staff with a shield. And since the wizard can't use a shield, the staff is more like "go get it, wizboy" kind of item. Also, in the US version, the staff gives you just 1 combat die. So its only helpful for diagonal attacks.
Yeah, I guess the short sword makes sense with Rust. You get it just to "defend" your better items from the Chaos spell, if its ever thrown your way.

This probably makes the most sense.

Hand Axe: 50gp.
Staff: 100gp, attack with two dice, two handed.
Short Sword: 100gp, can attack diagonally.
Spear: 150gp.

Until now i had the fixed opinion, that the showd swowd cannot be used diagonally, and that's the reason you would buy a spear.

It's only use is to be starting equipment.

The Hand Axe, i never understood that one. It's maybe so you can find something that's not always the same.

It's these little annoyances that lead me to replace the weapons as well.
Plus, I wanted to have some intermediate steps between two and three combat dice and came up with this instead.


In my system, swords have the first two dice replaced by 1Green, 1 Black. That way they hit more reliable but less often with high damage.
That makes
175 Short Sword Black, Green
340 Broad Sword Black, Green, White
380 Long Sword Black, Green, White, Diagonal
450 (sell only) Spirit Blade Black, Green, White, plus 1 white extra against Undead.
620 Greatsword white, green, black, yellow, two handed, Diagonal

The Spear is extra,
260 Spear, White, Black, Diagonal, may be thrown

Axes and Hammers and Maces get one or some whites replaced by yellows.
That makes less reliable hits, representing the top-heavy weapon.
But if it hits, it's two skulls instead one, representing the force behind the weight.

200 Hand Axe White, Yellow, may be thrown.
360 Mace White, Yellow, Yellow
410 Halberd White, Yellow, Yellow, two handed, Diagonal. (yes, technically the Halberd could be a spear, too )
525 Battle Axe White, Yellow, Yellow, Orange, Two handed

425 Flail Green, Yellow, Yellow Diagonal (the flail has his green die mainly to separate him from the mace and the Halberd)

I have also a range of one-die-weapons, but as no-one was ever buying them, maybe they're not necessary.
30 Dagger, White, can be thrown
75 Cane, White
100 Torch, white, green, illuminates the dungeon, is discarded at the end of the quest (needed only for some special quests)
130 Whip, Black, Diagonal


Conclusion: It's really nice to have some more options, but not necessary.
If you trim the game to be slim, you wouldn't use them.
My System is far away from certain RPG, though, by having only SOME weapons more than the base game.

After playing some test games, the new weapons are appreciated. They are not necessary, though.

For the game, they mean:
* They represent a money sink because more intermediate steps mean more money is spent before the power creep comes
* They are more appropriate priced than their originals
* Apart from that, the do nothing to the game.

Once again the NA version makes more sense to me. A short weapon with long reach makes no sense to me. Paying 100gc for an extra attack dice does.

What I think is lacking is a two attack dice diagonal weapon, and so I house rule a spear at 200gc.

The Admiral wrote:Once again the NA version makes more sense to me. A short weapon with long reach makes no sense to me.

Because it's a stabby weapon.

And all this is just one the reasons I completely rebuilt the distribution of weapons, abilities, and costs in my armoury!