Ye Olde Inn

How do you rule the use of spell scrolls when used in combination with items that allow you to recall or store a spell, like potion of recall or the spell ring?

Since a spell scroll functions the same as a spell, (it is "cast," takes an action, is lost once used, etc.) do you allow spell scrolls to be stored in a spell ring or cast again once a potion of recall is used?

Also, if a hero had a wand of magic, (cast 2 spells at once), would you allow a spell scroll to be one of those spells that can be cast in combination with either an additional spell scroll, or in combination with a regular spell the hero chose that the start of the quest?

Following the pattern of such items, using an item that stores, or recalls a spell in combination with a spell scroll would, at most, would give you only one more use from that scroll, since it is not implied that a spell stored in a spell ring is kept after the quest, or that a recalled spell is kept after the quest. Additionally, even if you ruled that the spell scroll could be fully returned as an artifact item (to be used in a later quest) after drinking a potion of recall, the cost of a potion of recall is expensive enough to prevent any kind of repeat abuse, and more or less could be seen as a clever exploit rather than a cheat or a rule hack.

Anyway, I'm curious how you might manage spell scrolls in combination with these items, as that could open up some creative game play, especially for heroes who are not magically-inclined from the start, while not necessarily giving them any advantage over the natural spellcasters.

I rull that the Spell ring can only store spells KNOWN by the wearer. Scrolls can not be stored in the ring. (had this very point come up in last nights game session)
Also the wand of magic double cast can only be used for spells the user knows, scrolls do not count.

cynthialee wrote:I rull that the Spell ring can only store spells KNOWN by the wearer. Scrolls can not be stored in the ring. (had this very point come up in last nights game session)
Also the wand of magic double cast can only be used for spells the user knows, scrolls do not count.

Yeah, this is how we play.

The user of a scroll has to READ the scroll and that is not hastened by the wand.

Somebody please tell me how the Dwarf and Barbarian learned to read magic? We don't allow anyone other than the Wizard to read scrolls.

If I was to change that rule I would rule that only Spell Casters can use scrolls. So the Elf would be also able to use them.

On-topic, I agree with whitebeard that Spell Scrolls can't be stored in the Spell Ring, as they are already stored in the form of their own scroll. However, I usually allow them to be combined with effects like the wand of magic, as the Hero is still casting two spells. The only difference is that one of them is written down.

whitebeard wrote:Somebody please tell me how the Dwarf and Barbarian learned to read magic? We don't allow anyone other than the Wizard to read scrolls.

Flavor-wise, I can accept that a Barbarian would cast very few spells, if any, throughout the course of the Quests he undertakes.

However, in terms of gameplay mechanics, Scrolls are really just re-skinned Potions with a different variety of potential effects, which is why at my house any Hero can read them, regardless of Mind Points.

Also, if your reasoning for denying the big guys Scroll access includes some iteration of "It makes the Wizard and Elf more useful", consider the following rebuttal: Adding scrolls to Quests as a means of buffing the Wizard is an inferior decision because of their one-use-only nature. When the other Heroes find swords, armor or equipment, the benefits of those items last throughout multiple Quests until either they get replaced by something stronger or they encounter a Rust user. The benefits of using a Scroll, on the other hand, are confined to a single Quest, possibly even a single room depending on the nature of the scroll.

One thing to consider would be the use of custom Scrolls which are more powerful when the reader has more Mind Points. I believe there was a topic with a bunch of magics using that mechanic somewhere; I'll have to go track it down later.

Count Mohawk wrote:Also, if your reasoning for denying the big guys Scroll access includes some iteration of "It makes the Wizard and Elf more useful", consider the following rebuttal: Adding scrolls to Quests as a means of buffing the Wizard is an inferior decision because of their one-use-only nature. When the other Heroes find swords, armor or equipment, the benefits of those items last throughout multiple Quests until either they get replaced by something stronger or they encounter a Rust user. The benefits of using a Scroll, on the other hand, are confined to a single Quest, possibly even a single room depending on the nature of the scroll.

One thing to consider would be the use of custom Scrolls which are more powerful when the reader has more Mind Points. I believe there was a topic with a bunch of magics using that mechanic somewhere; I'll have to go track it down later.

Not "buffing the Wizard", just defining a positive role such that "can only be used by the wizard" appears somewhere important in the game. If scrolls become a regular occurrence in your dungeons, then you certainly can buff him, but that is not really what I had in mind. The wizard can buy / trade for these from the other characters when they find them. I doubt the Barbarian can even read, never mind read a scroll. Sure he can be savvy and wise in combat, but I don't see him reading anything during combat. And the dwarf has spent all of his mind points on material pursuits (disarming traps), he shouldn't be able to read it either.

Cyn: Maybe the Elf should require two turns to read scrolls?… not as much training. Or only use a scroll in the school they have studied for the quest.

Sorry to drag us off topic...

I could see limiting the Elf to scrolls of their School of Magic. I actually really like it allot.
or Elf Spell scrolls...

but:

I tried to offer the Elf Spells entire deck or 1 School of Elemental Magic and the Elf chose the elemental spells. Even when I told them their NPC Wizard would get the entire elemental spells deck if she took the Elf spells she chose to take the elemental. So maybe the Elf Spells are not as desirable to some players...

The spell scroll is designed to be a one use item.
Thus I would declare it illegal to store it in the Spell Ring. If you could you could keep storing it each quest and just use the stored spell and never actually use the actual scroll.
I would have no problem with players using the Wand of Magic to cast a scroll though. Why not?

whitebeard wrote:Somebody please tell me how the Dwarf and Barbarian learned to read magic? We don't allow anyone other than the Wizard to read scrolls.

For starters, Just like Conan from the books, the barbarian isn't comically retarded. He is well traveled and resourceful. The same goes for the dwarf. 2MP is average intelligence.
This is the whole point of a spell scroll. You DON'T need to be a magician. If you can at least read, you can cast it.
You just read out what ever is written on the scroll and the spell casts itself.

Just like the following curse:

If you read this you are now cursed!

Resourceful, yes. He can sniff a potion he finds and figure out the effect.

As a barbarian he was raised a nomad with an oral history... If he learned to read (not because he's stupid, because of opportunity) he would have learned as an adult. So he's not going to be a great reader.

I always figure the runes on spell scrolls are written in the arcane language of magic. So you need to know quite a bit about magic to use them. So the dwarf similarly has no chance.

We can agree to disagree on this point. I see where you may have problems in solo quests but there are ways around this. But in general it makes sense to just hand all non weapon magic things to the wizard. "Wow, this is a talisman of lore. Mr. Barbarian, you really should keep this!" or "Great! I can use these scrolls later to help us." or "Oh! Put that down, it could be cursed!"

I would say nothing effects the reading of a scroll - no storing it in a ring, no hastening it with a ring, spell, or wand,
no casting it as a second spell because of a wand.

Unless there were a magic item specially made for scrolls. But that is still pushing the limits. MAYBE, if the reader had
a "quick" spell put upon him/her and was able to read faster and still understandable. MAYBE.