Trap Disarming Error

[dragon5145]

Oops. Just saw all the other posts about quest notes and cards, for augmenting the rules. Gotta remember read further into to the posts. MP down to 1.

[dragon5145]

I personally prefer the traps to stay hidden until sprung.
Why does the spear traps disappear when you search for traps?
You can have a whole room or corridor filled with spear traps; search and "poof" they are all gone. That's pretty close to BS in my book.

You just set them all off while standing out of the way.

No reason why the quest writer can't specify that the traps have to be disarmed though.

With what, they're probably pressure plate or trip wire triggered, most weapons that can be thrown probably not heavy enough and what godly aim hitting a trip wire in a dimly lit dungeon with a thrown dagger. I do find the thought of them barbarian thowning the dwarf down the corridor, or all the heroes carrying around giant rucksacks of the equivalent to bowling balls around the dungeon quite humorous. I guess there is also the good ole trusty 10' pole.

[dragon5145]

As GM I use the skull tokens to mark traps that have been discovered but not yet triggered or disarmed. I use small dice to keep track of lost monster BP's, which is much easier than a stack of skull tokens.

This is a very nifty idea, especially since small dice are readily available online or at local game and hobby stores. The difficulty in use is probably more of a personal preference than anything else, since adding or removing tiles from under a miniature or keeping the die from being turned accidently it's in amongst the miniatures is most likely very similar. Using either off the board just means keeping track of which stack or die goes with which monster as the pieces are moved around. All EWPs pick your preferred poison.

[Bareheaded Warrior]

In terms of the OPs question, I think this applies to the NA version only, as in the "EU" version all traps are rendered safe / automatically removed when found by a search apart from Falling Block Traps and Pit Traps where a marker is placed on the board, which can be disarmed (removed) by the Dwarf or another hero with the tool kit, so it is clear which square the trap is located on.

But personally I think both "EU" and NA approaches are flawed.

The classic edition ("EU") assumes that searching for traps, remotely disarms/removes them all (the rolling a bowling ball down the passageway idea, or perhaps the severed head of an enemy would be more appropriate to the theme) except for Falling Block Traps and Pit Traps which have their markers placed on the board and these have to be disarmed/removed "manually" by the Dwarf or a tool kit equipped hero.

The more interesting question is how the bowling ball / severed head mechanism triggers a trap located AFTER the pit trap down a passage? Or how it triggers a Spear trap located after a Falling Block trap that it doesn't trigger!

Under the NA remake, as you can see earlier in this thread, the rules are clear but again make little sense. If I can search for and find multiple traps along a single square width passage, without triggering any of them, then presumably I can see all the traps in a room or passage without moving past the first trap in the series, but if I can see all the traps in a room or passage then how can my hero then move to the wrong square to attempt to disarm a trap which he can see, but I as the player cannot? And yet that seems to be the general consensus.

The general principle in HQ is if you can see it then it is placed on the board, if you can't see it then it isn't placed on the board. Traps are not placed on the board initially as they are hidden so cannot be seen, if a search then reveals them visually then they can now be seen so something needs to be placed on the board to indicate their position, to do otherwise is inconsistent.

I suspect that this situation is caused in the NA remake, by the rules being changed after the component designs had been finalised, so there was no opportunity to add in a new marker for "discovered" traps. Under the classic version the found by not yet triggered falling block trap marker and the blocked square marker are one and the same marker (as is the found but not yet triggered/disarmed pit trap marker and the triggered pit marker) which causes problems, this was fixed in the new NA components by introducing two different markers, at least for the falling block but the rules were changed after the components, so that there is no difference between the function of the two markers, and a single marker for both would have covered it, leaving space for an "undiscovered" trap marker.

[Daedalus]

There was this one time we were playing Prince Magnus' Gold. My brother, playing as the Dwarf was outraged when he stepped out a door to immediately fall into a pit trap.
He spitefully continued playing assuming a trap was behind every door and around every single corner.
When they reached the north-eastern corner there was indeed a spear trap laying in wait.
Despite nobody actually searching for traps, my brother announced that he would be disarming the trap and successfully rolled to do so.
Although the trap was never appropriately identified I let it slide.

In essence, it could work both ways, couldn't it? If the Dwarf moves to a space where no trap is and attempts to disarm it, shouldn't he be able to disarm a trap on a space he correctly guesses for?

Well, if the Dwarf player was that upset, letting it slide was probably the correct call. As for the rules, I wouldn't normally allow it:

From p.21 of the US Instruction Booklet at the beginning of Action 6--Disarm a Trap:

As a Hero, to disarm an unsprung trap,
you must first know its location, and you
must possess a tool kit (or be the Dwarf)....

If a Hero doesn't remember the proper location, then his announced attempt is a failure, ending his turn. Thinking a stone statue is a monster and targeting it with a spell or attacking it with a weapon also result in failure. Failures springing from false assumptions are allowed to happen in Quests and take up actions.

If a Hero doesn't know the location, then the Disarm isn't possible. The failure should take a turn, but that is going to end anyway from springing the trap.

I think the kind of correct guessing you are leaning towards is covered by the Jumping a Trap rules. The Hero may know the location of a trapped square, but it isn't required--he only necessarily risks failing the jump, ending his turn. Of course, if there is a trap in the guessed square, then failing the roll also triggers the trap and the Hero suffers its damage/effects.