Line of Sight

[Cael Darkhollow]

Interesting, so it's more or less on the honor system except Zargon predictably attacks with monsters he has available.

So this might make it easier to use homebrew rules and play around with things... except for the lack of a quest-builder (being restricted to whatever they program in, I assume just the Game System for now).

Can you play with Monster stats/abilities too?

And does this also mean that if a monster kills you, you can just pretend it didn't happen and keep going?

It's a way to cheat then too, because you could explore everything ahead of time, but if that's your game, you could just read over the pdf of the quest book(s) even easier.

It sounds like it really is a "companion" to the board game, just showing you where to put things, vs. a full game in itself. That makes a lot more sense, I was wondering why they'd just replace the game they were selling with a video game that does it all for free (minus the homebrew options).

It only tracks monster stats in so far as you tell it how much damage by rolling skulls you did, the monster rolls defense then adjusts accordingly or dies, but there is a monster defeated button you could just run up to any monster and push that. It doens't track your health, you do. It tells you how much the monster rolled but doesn't keep track of your damage, if you blocked etc. It would have no idea if you died or not. It is a game component and token tracker only. It is completely an honor system designed so that solo players can play and have the monsters/board revealed with no spoilers. No one would cheat at solitaire card game would they? What would be the point? I cheated but I was testing app features, not actually trying to play HeroQuest.

[cynthialee]

I was messing with it and I don't like it. It seems to zombie move and attack at the closest hero.
If I see a way to get out of the room and run a monster away to a hidey hole to save him for when the heroes open more doors I am taking it. I am not going to blindly have my monsters attack closest hero just on proximity. Sure that may work for low challenge games or against kids.
Is pretty fun to have the heroes involved in a fight then suddenly on my turn a couple earlier cowards show up to reinforce the fight.

[Kurgan]

It only tracks monster stats in so far as you tell it how much damage by rolling skulls you did, the monster rolls defense then adjusts accordingly or dies, but there is a monster defeated button you could just run up to any monster and push that. It doens't track your health, you do. It tells you how much the monster rolled but doesn't keep track of your damage, if you blocked etc. It would have no idea if you died or not. It is a game component and token tracker only. It is completely an honor system designed so that solo players can play and have the monsters/board revealed with no spoilers. No one would cheat at solitaire card game would they? What would be the point? I cheated but I was testing app features, not actually trying to play HeroQuest.

Very helpful, thanks for explaining. I meant "cheating" in the sense that someone could come to a real game sessions having studied up on the quest beforehand (all the more reason to tweak quests before running them). No real change since we've had the internet of course.

[Kurgan]

I was messing with it and I don't like it. It seems to zombie move and attack at the closest hero.
If I see a way to get out of the room and run a monster away to a hidey hole to save him for when the heroes open more doors I am taking it. I am not going to blindly have my monsters attack closest hero just on proximity. Sure that may work for low challenge games or against kids.
Is pretty fun to have the heroes involved in a fight then suddenly on my turn a couple earlier cowards show up to reinforce the fight.

Yeah the spontaneity of Zargon and strategies of a human make it all that more fun. I know some people who feel Zargon should play as if he's a dumb AI... monsters just run forward and attack the closest hero, but never target just one person, fall back, etc. the Heroes already have the deck stacked in their favor with the base game, so why be forced to play this way? (if the GM player chooses to, that's their prerogative).

[cynthialee]

I was messing with it and I don't like it. It seems to zombie move and attack at the closest hero.
If I see a way to get out of the room and run a monster away to a hidey hole to save him for when the heroes open more doors I am taking it. I am not going to blindly have my monsters attack closest hero just on proximity. Sure that may work for low challenge games or against kids.
Is pretty fun to have the heroes involved in a fight then suddenly on my turn a couple earlier cowards show up to reinforce the fight.

Yeah the spontaneity of Zargon and strategies of a human make it all that more fun. I know some people who feel Zargon should play as if he's a dumb AI... monsters just run forward and attack the closest hero, but never target just one person, fall back, etc. the Heroes already have the deck stacked in their favor with the base game, so why be forced to play this way? (if the GM player chooses to, that's their prerogative).

If Zargon doesn't play smart he can't win most games unless he gets lucky.

Focused fire, blocking doorways and run and gun works well for both sides.

[Kurgan]

Which leads back to the age old debate... there are those who say Zargon SHOULDN'T ever win (unless the heroes are suicidally stupid), but apart from the explicit design philosophy of the Japanese rules, this wasn't actually a "rule" in the official game. Zargon IS trying to kill the Heroes, and as long as he doesn't cheat, it's his call how hard he goes on them.

Many have adopted a kind of compromise... similar to players of other types of games. You don't want to crush your opponents so hard that they don't come back (due to a small pool of potential players to let you enjoy the game) but you want them to feel the challenge as much as possible to keep it interesting.

I think an unforgiving AI Zargon could help "toughen up" players, but it would also give them a false sense of security knowing the AI vs. an unpredictable human GM opponent.

[cynthialee]

Which leads back to the age old debate... there are those who say Zargon SHOULDN'T ever win (unless the heroes are suicidally stupid), but apart from the explicit design philosophy of the Japanese rules, this wasn't actually a "rule" in the official game. Zargon IS trying to kill the Heroes, and as long as he doesn't cheat, it's his call how hard he goes on them.

Many have adopted a kind of compromise... similar to players of other types of games. You don't want to crush your opponents so hard that they don't come back (due to a small pool of potential players to let you enjoy the game) but you want them to feel the challenge as much as possible to keep it interesting.

I think an unforgiving AI Zargon could help "toughen up" players, but it would also give them a false sense of security knowing the AI vs. an unpredictable human GM opponent.

Every game I offer my players two options.

1. By the Book. I will do my best to destroy everyone.

2. As a RPG Lite. Here I will be the GM and try and make a memorable play time for everyone. I will go for a few heads, but unless the dice hate you or you are stupid at least one hero is likely to pull off the objective.

I prefer the second option. Then I use Evil Wizard Cards, have difficult to find traps and I might pull out the Dungeon Tiles or the Battle Mat.

But I have no issue going BtB. I am going to smear them if I get a chance.

As for playing the monsters AI style where they most attack nearest enemy....I do not understand that mindset. That is nowhere in the rules. The rules as written allow Zargon to play smart.

[Kurgan]

There are other people who try to give the monsters character... so they'll say low MIND POINT monsters (and for sure undead) will just act dumbly while "smarter" monsters will act more intelligently, but again, highly subjective. I'm okay with the bad guys having a hive mind and be controlled by the Evil Wizard, just as the Heroes have the benefit of being able to confer and coordinate their turns without the minis all being "within earshot" of each other such that they could realistically "make plans" if it were real life ("the magic earpiece of communication").

[cynthialee]

Zargon knows at all times where his monsters are and can send them orders at will. Maybe the orc doesn't know why he is being told to hide for now, but Zargon knows.

[HispaZargon]

Hi, in my homebrew rules, I make a difference between "see" and "be in the line of sight":

For me a hero can "see" everything inside a corridor or a room if the hero is inside that corridor or room or the hero is "looking down a corridor" through an opened door or from a corner between corridors. I consider monsters or heroes previously placed there cannot block what can be seen inside the room/corridor like furniture, walls, doors, or other monsters/heroes. If a monster can be "seen" by a hero means that such monster does not allow the hero to do any searching task. Additionally, if a moster can be "seen" by a hero, it also means that such monster can be ONLY the target of the hero's spells that 'common sense' tells a straight line between the hero and the monster is not required (for example, Sleep or Tempest could be casted but Ball of Flame or Fire of Wrath may not). This also means that such monster cannot be the target for any missile or throwing weapon in any case. The same applies in case of monsters.

However, in the other hand for me, a hero/monster "is in the line of sight" of other hero/monster when its position strictly shows compliance with the line of sight rules described in the rulebook, including the "looking down a corridor" rule for line of sight. In this case, those miniatures can be "seen" as described in previous paragraph but they ALSO are "in the line of sight", so they can be the target for every missile weapon or spell. Then, other miniatures can block the "line of sight" of a hero but they cannot block what the hero "sees" behind them. The same applies in case of monsters.

Of course this interpretation is not fully effective but I think solves 95% of the unclear cases.