Ye Olde Inn

by **Goblin-King** » July 8th, 2013, 4:48 pm

A couple of comments:

Actually I (along with the designers of the game I'm sure) do in fact think of the potion as in increase in muscles. You grow strong and can swing your weapons with greater force.
That's what the image implies. That's what the rule implies. That's what a potion of strength does in fairy tales.
Still, it's a game... Like someone said; rules are abstract. No need to make things more complicated.

In regard to "melee", the word has gained a new meaning in games and is now synonymous with "close-combat". Words change...

(Are you being facetious? Pardon me if I'm missing your point.) A crossbow may only sometimes be used to fire at an enemy 7.5 feet away in a diagonally-located square, because it is ranged. It may not be used to fire 7.5 feet between diagonally-opposite squares that are adjacent to the crossbow wielder (and target) and are both occupied by figures or bordered by intervening, contiguous obstructions such as a wall. That blocks line of site for long range weapons. The crossbow is described as long ranged as well as requiring you can "see" a monster. Only a melee (close combat) weapon intended for diagonal attack such as a longsword can attack diagonally between two blocked squares.

by **chaoticprime** » July 9th, 2013, 3:56 pm

Daedalus wrote:(Are you being facetious? Pardon me if I'm missing your point.) A crossbow may only sometimes be used to fire at an enemy 7.5 feet away in a diagonally-located square, because it is ranged. It may not be used to fire 7.5 feet between diagonally-opposite squares that are adjacent to the crossbow wielder (and target) and are both occupied by figures or bordered by intervening, contiguous obstructions such as a wall. That blocks line of site for long range weapons. The crossbow is described as long ranged as well as requiring you can "see" a monster. Only a melee (close combat) weapon intended for diagonal attack such as a longsword can attack diagonally between two blocked squares.

A crossbow can be used in a melee. This is fact.

by **bastianbux** » July 9th, 2013, 4:01 pm

I feel like the spirit of the rules allows the use of the PoS on a crossbow attack... which makes no sense, I agree... but many of the rules of HeroQuest make no real world sense.

It's intended to be an extremely simplified--to the point of illogical--RPG.

by **chaoticprime** » July 9th, 2013, 4:56 pm

bastianbux wrote:I feel like the spirit of the rules allows the use of the PoS on a crossbow attack... which makes no sense, I agree... but many of the rules of HeroQuest make no real world sense. It's intended to be an extremely simplified--to the point of illogical--RPG.

That's a fact. In real life strength-enhancing magical potions don't do *lemony goodness* for you when firing a crossbow, and strength only very specifically references acts of battery.

by **bastianbux** » July 9th, 2013, 5:07 pm

I have found that in real life strength-enhancing potions do help out when doing the crossword, however.

by **chaoticprime** » July 9th, 2013, 7:22 pm

bastianbux wrote:I have found that in real life strength-enhancing potions do help out when doing the crossword, however.

I wouldn't know about that; I have never needed help solving a crossword puzzle.

by **Daedalus** » July 10th, 2013, 1:55 pm

chaoticprime wrote:A crossbow can be used in a melee. This is fact.

True, if you use melee distance as the criteria this applies. I should simplify my more precise fact to frame it: A crossbow can only be fired in melee while observing LOS and adjacency restrictions.

A D&D crossbow isn't allowed to attack in melee from a diagonal square as all 8 surrounding squares are considered adjacent. This is more restrictive than Hero Quest, which allows a crossbow to be fired from the near diagonal square if LOS permits. I don't think applying distance criteria reflects D&D's greater level of descriptive restriction, so I prefer to think of melee definition differently.

D&D catagorizes melee weapons apart from missile and thrown weapons. A crossbow isn't called a melee weapon in that game, it's called a missile weapon. Similarly, a crossbow isn't considered a weapon that attacks adjacently or diagonally in Hero Quest (even though it can attack diagonally if LOS permits), it's considered a long-range weapon. I think that D&D drew the distinction to seperate effects and restrictions, such as the bonus gained from a potion of strength. In the D&D sense of melee, knightkrawler's card still disallows a crossbow to be used with a potion of strength.

I'm okay with you not prefering the term, however. I personally like to stick with the phrases presented in the Instruction Booklet and Expansions. I'm kinda overboard in that department, as my posts often betray. :geek:

by **torilen** » July 10th, 2013, 5:03 pm

Here is my thought on it all.

First...I don't allow crossbows to be used against adjacent squares...any of the eight, including the diagonal ones. It is a
ranged weapon, and all rpg's exempt ranged weapons from adjacent attacks. Might as well keep it that way. Granted, in
real world practicality, it could be used in some cases, but not all...just like hand guns and shotguns...they're sometimes
hard to use if a person is right up on you and ready to beat you or stab you or such.

That said, most crossbows are loaded by hand, using two hands - which would requires someone to be strong to use it
in the first place - or by using a crank to draw the string, in which case strength would not matter.

Regular bows, on the other hand, require strength. I know from experience, as I have fired several in my lifetime. Some
bows require only a little, and others require a lot. Modern compound bows allow weaker people to use them, to some
extent. Old-style recurve bows can be very hard to pull, based on the amount it is curved back, the material it is made of,
and the type of string used.

And normally for these types of weapons, you're only using two fingers to pull the string, anyhow. To pull the string and keep
the arrow up and straight, you have to have a lot of finger and wrist strength.

I would allow the potion of strength to be used with a regular bow, if you have these in your armory. BUT...the person
using the bow would only get the full amount of dice with some bows ONLY IF he used the potion.

It might make your rules a little bit muddled, but you may want to give the potion of strength a set number that it increases
your strength, and require a certain Strength number to use the bows, and decrease the attack dice if the person DOES NOT
have the proper strength to use it.

Otherwise, I am not sure how you could make the mechanics work with a ranged weapon, aside from just allowing it or disallowing it.