Adjacent monsters

[Goblin-King]

With all being said:

AS A GAME MECHANIC... I think the crossbow would work better if the diagonals also counts as adjacent.
Attacking from a distance is incredible useful, while still being as powerful as most other weapons - The exception being the Battle Axe which everyone should be using anyway, except the wizard who doesn't understand real power.
The drawback for this great weapon should be that it's harder to position yourself.
It's almost impossible to deny usage of the crossbow because it's so easy to just move one square to the diagonal.
If the diagonals were forbidden it would be (somewhat) harder to use, justifying it's great power more.

Right now... Why even bother with the adjacent rule?

[knightkrawler]

Because if you do, you can scratch longsword/broadsword and every other melee weapon ever conceived with 3 attack dice.

[Sjeng]

Exactly. That's why I don't allow the crossbow to be used diagonally adjacent. It makes the longsword redundant.Why buy a reach weapon when you can have reach ánd ranged in one weapon?

[Patroclus]

Crossbow/longbow is a two-handed weapon and you can’t use shield, don’t compare it with swords. You can compare it only with battleaxe which has 4 combat dices.

But I don’t find the long range so useful. It’s just for defensive play and players with low body points. If it can’t hit on the adjacent diagonal square then you are make it weaker, and we all know how important is to support the other players when you are out of the door and the enemy is in the first square of the room blocking the way in.

[knightkrawler]

Crossbow/longbow is a two-handed weapon and you can’t use shield, don’t compare it with swords. You can compare it only with battleaxe which has 4 combat dices.

But I don’t find the long range so useful. It’s just for defensive play and players with low body points. If it can’t hit on the adjacent diagonal square then you are make it weaker, and we all know how important is to support the other players when you are out of the door and the enemy is in the first square of the room blocking the way in.

Exactly.
After my rule and hero class changes, there are only two of four heroes effectively using ranged weapons, anyway.
One has the skill set to effectivly become a melee tank AND average marksman (maxed out 4 AD/5 DD, 3 AD ranged, the Dwarf template).
The other is the jack-of-all-trades and master marksman (maxed out 3 AD/5 DD, 4 AD ranged + spells/skills, the Elf template).
I forbid my Warrior to use ranged weapons other than thrown, plus he has to have more AD than DD when fully equipped/at the start of each quest - he does not have to throw away his chain mail when weaponless after bothered with the Rust spell of course... (maxed out 6 AD/4 DD, the Barbarian template).
For the sake of completeness, the Wizard maxed out: (2 AD/5 DD)
The maxing out hopefully isn't achieved before some time during RotWL so the heroes can start AtOH in that state. I'm playtesting intensively.

But I digress... Anyway, it's typed, now.

[Jewels!]

So...I'm not the only one. Thanks everybody, looks like it's time for some house rules!

[Daedalus]

In my version's armory the crossbow description says...

you cannot fire at a monster that is adjacent to you

...but makes exclusion to diagonal attacks. So for me, if my hero has a crossbow and a broadsword then he can hit any adjacent or diagonal square with 3 attack dice so a longsword is obsolete. What am I missing here?

The Longsword has a purpose, but you can't equate the diagonal attack from a Longsword with a Crossbow shot from the same diagonal space. Why? Because a careful inspection of wording disallows a Crossbow shot diagonally between 2 corners. The wording for the Crossbow from the Armory goes like this:

This long-range weapon gives you the
attack strength of 3 combat dice. You
may fire at any monster that you can
"see." However, you cannot fire at
a monster that is adjacent to you....

So you have to "see" a monster in order to fire at it.
The wording for seeing from p.15 of the N. Amer. Instruction Booklet has this to say under "SEE":

A Good Rule of Thumb: Draw an
invisible straight line between the center
of the square the spellcaster is on and
the center of the square the target is on.
If the line does not cross a wall, closed
door, Hero or monster, the target is
declared visible, even if the line just
touches a corner or wall edge. The
following diagram shows an example
of what is visible.

The key is the qualifying dependent clause "...even if the line just touches a corner or wall edge." This specifically includes the case of one corner of a Hero or monster--indicated by the article "a", but it doesn't include a line that touches two meeting corners of two Heroes or monsters. Touching just one corner or edge provides line-of-sight to the target because the square(s) opposite/across from of the blocking corner or edge are free of obstruction. Should two corners of obtructing squares meet, however, then there are no clear squares opposite to "see" through.

So a Hero is prohibited by the "see" rule from shooting through two corners, which is the case when shooting between diagonally-adjacent monsters or Heroes. The diagonal attack of a Longsword is useful because it is under no such restriction. Similarly, a Hero can't shoot a Crossbow diagonally between a door corner and the corner of an adjacent Hero. Again, the diagonal attacking ability of the Longsword allows this....

[Jewels!]

The key is the qualifying dependent clause "...even if the line just touches a corner or wall edge." This specifically includes the case of one corner of a Hero or monster--indicated by the article "a", but it doesn't include a line that touches two meeting corners of two Heroes or monsters. Touching just one corner or edge provides line-of-sight to the target because the square(s) opposite/across from of the blocking corner or edge are free of obstruction. Should two corners of obtructing squares meet, however, then there are no clear squares opposite to "see" through.

So a Hero is prohibited by the "see" rule from shooting through two corners, which is the case when shooting between diagonally-adjacent monsters or Heroes. The diagonal attack of a Longsword is useful because it is under no such restriction. Similarly, a Hero can't shoot a Crossbow diagonally between a door corner and the corner of an adjacent Hero. Again, the diagonal attacking ability of the Longsword allows this....

Wouldn't this also disallow using the crossbow to attack along the diagonal across ANY distance though?

[chaoticprime]

No, because "corner" does not apply to every square.

I don't understand how everyone can just utterly fail to understand the rules-as-written. I have had this board game for twenty years, and this has never been an issue.

Short Sword, Broadsword, Battle Axe = Adjacent Squares (4)
Longsword, Staff = Adjacent, Diagonal Squares (8)
Crossbow = Non-adjacent, No squares within firing arc more than 50% obstructed by a doorway

The golden rule of any game that has rules, is "Can Vs. Cannot; that's Game Theory 101.

A game object classified within the rules behaves exceptionally only with a "Can or Cannot" clause.

Do all weapons attack diagonally? No.
Do all weapons normally attack adjacent? Yes.
Does the crossbow attack adjacent? No.
Do weapons normally attack any enemies that you can "see?" No.
Does the crossbow normally attack any enemies that you can "see"? Yes.
Do the rules cover additional description of what "see" actually means? Yes.
Do the rules describe "see" as an area-of-effect? Yes.

By ruling that the Crossbow is incapable of attacking diagonally, you are applying the logic that the Battle Axe can be used to attack any enemy that you can "see," because it does not say that you cannot and because you can "see" adjacent enemies, that you already know you can attack, normally.

Considering Weapons

Short Sword; clauses: 1 (May not be used by the Wizard)
Broad Sword; clauses: 1 (May not be used by the Wizard)
Longsword; clauses: 2 (Enables you to attack diagonally, may not be used by the Wizard)
Battle Axe; clauses: 2 (You may not use a shield when using this weapon, may not be used by the Wizard)
Crossbow; clauses: 3 (You may fire at any monster that you can "see," you cannot fire at a monster that is adjacent to you, may not be used by the Wizard)
Staff; clauses: 2 (Enables you to attack diagonally, you may not use a shield when using this weapon)
Dagger; clauses: 2 (Can also be thrown at any enemy you can "see," it is lost when it is thrown)

Can you use a shield with the crossbow? Yes.
Can you attack a diagonal enemy with the crossbow? Yes.

[Sjeng]

Crossbow is a two-handed weapon and you can’t use shield, don’t compare it with swords.

That's also a house rule. It doesn't say it's 2 handed anywhere in the (EU) rules. I allow a shield with the crossbow.

edit: the EU rules are completely different from NA rules. The term "see" ins't in the EU rules if I recall correctly. They describe line of sight with a drawing in the rules.