PATH OF THE WANDERING MONK discussion

[j_dean80]

$15-20 for two minis and a few cards is too much.

Shove it in the next expansion and tag $10 onto the price. It's what should've been done with the Rogue Heir and Mage of the Mirror and it was a great move with Rise of The Dread Moon and the Guardian Knight.

Plus, I can't speak for you guys, but am Oriental Adventures equivalent HQ expansion would be very welcome at my table. Bring it on.

Japanese HeroQuest re-release?

[Maalicia_Ironhoof]

Im personally not too keen on the whole monk thing, i buy it anyway inb support of the keeping things in print but does give me home-brew ideas for an "acolyte of sigmar" or some other minimalist style hero

A Sigmarite zealot or flagellant would be a great addition.

or an acolyte with a flagellant as a "(animal) companion" type fill in!

[BroccoliRage]

$15-20 for two minis and a few cards is too much.

Shove it in the next expansion and tag $10 onto the price. It's what should've been done with the Rogue Heir and Mage of the Mirror and it was a great move with Rise of The Dread Moon and the Guardian Knight.

Plus, I can't speak for you guys, but am Oriental Adventures equivalent HQ expansion would be very welcome at my table. Bring it on.

Japanese HeroQuest re-release?

That's not quite what I meant.

[j_dean80]

$15-20 for two minis and a few cards is too much.

Shove it in the next expansion and tag $10 onto the price. It's what should've been done with the Rogue Heir and Mage of the Mirror and it was a great move with Rise of The Dread Moon and the Guardian Knight.

Plus, I can't speak for you guys, but am Oriental Adventures equivalent HQ expansion would be very welcome at my table. Bring it on.

Japanese HeroQuest re-release?

That's not quite what I meant.

The original Japanese version was different enough from the other game systems that they could adapt it and re-package it into another Quest Pack.

[BroccoliRage]

I don't speak a lick of Japanese, I've never been to Japan, and I've only known one Japanese person. I don't know anything at all about Japanese HQ, never been exposed to it. Now I'm curious.

[JackieX]

I don't speak a lick of Japanese, I've never been to Japan, and I've only known one Japanese person. I don't know anything at all about Japanese HQ, never been exposed to it. Now I'm curious.

http://forum.yeoldeinn.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5892&sid=78ddd2bd384f1d67864484e14a690581

[Kurgan]

Well done everyone! I had a great discussion with Encarmine (Chris Nadeau) about the design choices on this character and why they chose a kind of elemental Shaolin Monk style character (as opposed to a western style Friar Tuck monk). They also shied away from any explicit references to any real life religions, whether Christian, Buddhist, Taoist, Shinto, etc.

Yes, looking back there are certainly supernatural, religious references in the lore of HeroQuest (the Dave Morris novels mention a crucifix and crossing one's self, the Barbarian talks about his respect for "the gods" even if he doesn't worship them and has an encounter with a winged Valkyrie whether a dream or real). Spirit Queen's Torment makes explicit references to an afterlife and features many instances of ghosts of dead creatures (including Orcs). Of course the Game System contained references to ghosts way back in 1989. The North American edition of Return of the Witch Lord (1991) even introduced a vial of "Sacred Water" as a quest note item (I expected to find the earlier '89 version to mention Holy Water but there is simply nothing in its place in the original note). Holy Water was a treasure card was in the European versions but removed from the North American and then brought back in the remake as an "Equipment" card that you can buy for 400 gold coins (in traditional Christianity the buying of Holy Water is considered the sin of Simony though it happens all the time even in modern day... it's one thing to suggest a donation but the blessing is given for free, at best you are allowed to sell the bottle that you can then fill from a holy water font or add your own water and have it blessed by an ordained minister).

Spirit Queen's Torment also mentions "gods." You could even go back to the 1989 HeroQuest (the core set was not yet referred to as the "Game System" but that and Kellar's Keep, Return of the Witch Lord) and you see lots more references in art to the world of Warhammer Fantasy (WHF Battle 3rd Edition was current at the time and the RPG was also out). Art is taken from those books and transposed onto HeroQuest reference materials. Anyway many of us on these forums know that now if we didn't already (I didn't know all that when I was a kid and I didn't have the more "rich" European version that had more of those references in front of our eyes). The Warhammer world has its own mythology, religions, mysticism, etc. So there are polytheistic gods and demi-gods. The character "Sigmar" is mentioned obliquely as a possible sample name for the Barbarian for example.

The Japanese edition's entire plot is based around Grimdead (or Glimdeath, though we're pretty sure it's probably Grimdeath though a native Japanese reader could correct that at some point) trying to resurrect the "evil god" (a figure reminiscent of the Witch Lord and the Frozen Horror combined... and this is in 1991, before that later pack was released!). Of course many have pointed out that "gods" in Japanese traditional culture aren't necessarily like the more Western popularized conception of God as almighty, and often less like the super-beings of the pre-Christian European nations but more like "spirits" (kami) of ancestors, places, elements of varying power levels. Of course in the translation process when many on these forums were working to translate them they couldn't help notice the possible connection with the "chaos gods" (daemonic forces, ruinous powers, dark powers, etc of the "Immaterium") of Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 and some wished to cast this figure in that light. Demons pop up occasionally in HeroQuest as well (the Warlock's demonform comes to mind, or the Fire Daemon from Prophecy of Telor and probably some others that I'm forgetting... the original Gargoyle design is from a Warhammer Fantasy "Blood thirster" a kind of daemonic prince/chaos champion if I recall correctly but I'm not a Warhammer expert mind you which in turn is based upon a Balrog from Lord of the Rings, a kind of "fire demon" of the ancient world according to that lore. So lots of things to choose from and lots to ignore or reinterpret if you are wishing to keep real world religious notions out of your HeroQuest game completely.

Chris was quick to point out that from their perspective the Dave Morris novels are "not canon anymore" in regards to this new remake conception of HeroQuest (which makes some sense since they would have to comb through those to remove the explicit references to GamesWorkShop IP just like they did with the board game legacy components thus far and I assume that's much tougher with a book that was written by an author who doesn't work for them). I personally would be thrilled if they said they were hiring Dave back to write some new novels for the franchise. Wouldn't that be cool?

He also generally commented that until something from the old HeroQuest is brought into the new one, it's not considered "canon." At the same time he agreed that as a player, you have all the freedom in the world to insert your imagination in there or use whatever you want from the past, including these legacy things. So if you want God (and/or the "gods"), priests, prayers, etc. in HeroQuest, go for it and more power to you. There was also some concern that they were going to be perceived as simply copying D&D and using that as filler so they wanted to try to do something to be different, stand out, be separate from that.

But they are surely trying to keep it open for the widest possible audience and not step on anyone's toes or scruples (whether religious or non or even anti-religious). For some people putting it in a fantasy setting is fine, even if it's not "orthodox" while others would want it removed completely.

As Chris pointed out, he and the other designers may have their own head canon about it but they are always more inclined to leave gaps on purpose in the lore or HeroQuest so that the players can insert their own imagination into those gaps however they choose. HeroQuest is a sandbox and you are supposed to make it your own.

So anyway I hope none of that was violative of the rules. I find it a fascinating topic but since it is one of those deeply personal (and potentially divisive) things (especially on a public forum that isn't devoted to those subjects) I'm fine letting it be. This is the direction they're going with it now. I have plenty of notions of modding this guy out in the future to make it more of a Western style monk (while retaining his same abilities) much like I did with the Bard in transforming him into a pirate (and then into a cleric) or the Warlock into a halfling Ranger. Each to their own preference. But having a kung fu quasi-magical monk on the team? Awesome. I loved that the old arcade game "Gate of Doom" had a black-clad Ninja alongside the female Wizard, Knight and Elven Bard.

[Kurgan]

As I was away at GenCon (and without a proper computer most of that time... yes, many reminded me in hindsight I probably should have gotten at least a "burner phone" for the conference) I am playing catch up with these threads since I wasn't on here or the discord for nearly a week. Really good scoops guys!

For those of you without facebook (or instagram or twitter now called "X"):

(the only card I had some trouble seeing was the "Twisting Torrent" which I think basically allows you to negate damage and that completes the puzzle for me!)

I notice HasbroPulse (thanks seekhashem) as well as the various online stores all say he can't use METAL armor or shields, but the actual card images shown don't use the word "metal." So not sure if that's a last minute change or a day 1 errata. The only thing that would change I guess is that it explicitly means they don't intend him to wear a helmet either (not just "body armor" aka chainmail, plate mail) and presumably he can wear bracers in that interpretation (but you might think no bracers without the word metal since they are described as hardened leather on the Bracers equipment card!).

Several of the pics are of course 3d renders and not the actual figures (the real cards have rounded, rather than sharp corners, matching the rest of the remake HeroQuest Cards but the "lore sheet" does indeed have tattered edges).

And yes, we finally have a "World Map" (albeit not one that is clearly labeled, but will be developed in the future we expect) on the reverse side of that lore card.

In several of my videos covering all this I was confused by the fact that they show lots of Wandering Monk style cards. In reality they had extras out to both reveal (and obscure) some of those abilities. There are actually only 4 "elemental style" cards. One for each, so a fire, a water, an air and an earth. And one ability/power ("style") is on each side. You use one, then you "exhaust" it (discard implies it's gone for the rest of the quest, but these can come back as soon as you have no more monsters within Line of Sight of your character). Then there's a card explaining the style system itself (5th card), two hero cards for the male and female (6th & 7th) and the lore sheet doesn't count as a card.

I was speculating because the female Monk is shown with a staff in hand and no asterisk by the "1" for her attack stat, but the asterisk with text at the bottom of the card is the same on both hero cards, so we are assuming their intention was NOT to give the female a staff weapon and the male a dagger weapon (look at the belt area of the figure, he has either a dagger or shortsword there). If you did it that way they would have to have the player say they were switching to unarmed from the starting weapon to get the bonus (2 attack adjacent for unarmed, or 1 attack for the staff or dagger). Again it could be one of those day one fixes or perhaps they felt that was the least confusing way to do it. We all know that the figure doesn't necessarily show the exact starting equipment (otherwise the Dwarf would begin with a hand axe, the Wizard with a Staff and the Barbarian with a Longsword perhaps).

Much has been made of the "arena" shown in the artwork (I would like to see some of the concept art too!) and the foam and plastic model shown at the con was pretty cool in the display case. They actually changed the arrangement of the figures in the arena several times, a different setup on each day so I only have like two of the configurations documented in my stuff but others took pictures of the rest. Basically it all boils down to teases that they're developing the "World" more and perhaps there will be a future deathmatch arena/tournament perhaps a Mortal Kombat style world tour in a future expansion, perhaps tied to Against the Ogre Horde (which they coyly dodged every time I tried to ask about it in interviews).

You can view more in my own GenCon coverage (some of the details are outdated as we've refined our understanding since those initial days of shock and excitement!): GenCon 2023 playlist on my channel

Working on a full "heroQuest montage" video that will premiere on youtube a little later today...

[Kurgan]

More picks. Thanks especially to seekhashem (HeroQuestFans Discord) for pointing me to the concept art shown on Facebook's Jon Metters Foam Modeling Workshop...

[Kurgan]

More pics... (all from HasbroPulse).

Amalgamash (on his new AshQuest channel) also here and also here and I (on youtube) have both posted videos of the "rotating 3d models" as well.

I scored some Interviews at GenCon too that you may want to check out for further clues (the 2nd Interview with Encarmine Aka Chris Nadeau especially on the topic of the Monk specifically) here.

I don't really think this character is "broken" or "OP." Remember, he's not fighting the game all by himself, but with a party that consists of 3 other heroes. He may start out powerful but remember that over time you'll be adding equipment, artifacts, purchasing potions, and being buffed by spells, etc. The original 14 are not the only quests he'll be playing as you can insert him wherever you want like the others.

We haven't yet seen the "half sleeve" and if it has any secret extra rules like the Rogue had as well but we have a pretty good idea for playtesting on our own until Jan 15th...

The Japanese HeroQuest brought the "Western fantasy" stuff into the Eastern realm. I don't have a problem with mixing the East and West (I had a fondness for "Gate of Doom" an arcade video game from back in the day by Data East that put a Ninja as playable hero alongside a female Wizard, Knight and Elven Bard).