WIZARDS OF MORCAR discussion

[Vorimir]

But the angry white haired man is Mentor with the Loretome telling the heroes all the dangers ahead. Zargon/Morcar can be whatever Hasbro want him to be like...

[SirRick]

Maybe Avalon Hill will finally admit what we knew all along, that Mentor and Zargon are the same person! The Zargon mini could be a mirrored version of the Mentor mini that came with the Mythic set. Mentor’s amulet probably has the Zargon symbol on the back side of it, and he flips it over to accommodate whatever mood he is in.

Mentor’s story about how he “battled” Zargon for days was probably like the ending scene in Fight Club, only with magic involved. He could have been studying Dread magic for knowledge purposes with no evil intent, until a bad reaction to a spell unhinged him, and Zargon was born…

[Kurgan]

Only problem with this theory is how is "Zargon" in the Northern "Dread" wastes commanding his troops while Mentor is behind the "King's" lines advising the heroes?

How did the battle take place centuries ago with "Zargon" throwing lightning bolts breaching the "King's" lines in a dozen places? Is Mentor lying to everyone? (this goes way beyond Obi-Wan Kenobi's "from a certain POV"). Nobody else has picked up on the threads of this centuries old conspiracy?

I know it has been fashionable these days to re-imagine and "deconstruct" heroes as the real villains (or villains as the real heroes) but to me this is just a joke. That said if you want to give me a quest pack where the players at the table control the monsters fighting against Mentor behind the screen (a kind of reversal akin to Orc Quest but with a GM) that's fine by me.

I don't buy it. As much as we joke about it (Mentor sending the heroes into Danger, GMs playing as Zargon giving the heroes a break sometimes) to me them being the same person doesn't really work. He'd have to be capable of bilocation and either lying or mentally unhinged (for centuries) such that he imagines he's this other guy. You might as well say that magically he split into two men, or has a clone of himself with equal (greater?) powers.

If the heroes knew, couldn't they just finish him off right there since they're constantly in contact with him? Or if he was Zargon he could wipe them out the next time they're in his office chatting about the next adventure. Why would he sabotage his own plans? Again, the more you think about it the more it doesn't make sense, like some kind of hastily constructed pro-wrestling storyline ending.

Yes, they could retcon everything to make it make sense, but it would be very... very silly. I know, sillier things have happened in big name comic books, so anything is possible. But would I really want that? No, I wouldn't. Just like I don't want them to officially declare that HeroQuest takes place in the D&D world. I could easily ignore it as a fan, but it's also embarrassing and does nothing to enhance the brand in my eyes.

[j_dean80]

Perhaps you defeat Zargon just to find out he was a puppet for his dad Morcar, who was actually pulling all the strings all along.

[SirRick]

At first glance, who honestly thought the angry old wizard sending an army of monsters in your direction was Mentor? Since the new edition came out, I have finally come to accept the angry old man is supposed to be Mentor, but I still imagine Zargon to look exactly the same, perhaps angrier. Even Mentor’s voice in the app sounds like a Zargon voice to me. Imagine Mentor’s voice saying “Defend yourself Barbarian! Roll your defend dice!” would sound more menacing than the Mall Zargon voice we got.

If Mentor/Zargon were the same person, he could make up any story he liked, and no one would ever know he was lying.

A possible scenario could be:

Zargon finds an abandoned tower on kingdom lands which he plans to use to spy on his enemy while pretending to be the friendly neighborhood wizard. It’s been hundreds of years since he was last here. No one would know what he looks like. He just finishes setting up some cobwebs and dusty old tomes when suddenly four green-eared wannabe heroes burst into the room.

Heroes: “Who are you, you crusty old man?”

Zargon glares at them angrily, then softens his expression, “I’m…..Mentor….the kindly sage. I know all and see all thanks to my magic book (he grabs the nearest random volume and thumbs through the pages), it’s called Loretome.”

The Heroes look at each other excitedly, “Oh sweet! Can you teach us to be great heroes?”

Zargon strokes his beard thoughtfully, and gets a twinkle in his eye, “Heroes, eh?” (Hmmm…I could have fun with this…)

He proceeds to tell the heroes the story of the Master and his Apprentice battling for days. Eventually the heroes training is complete. He sends them to assassinate various chieftains who refuse to follow him: Ulag, Gulthor, and Balur. After the leaders’ deaths, the minions flock to Zargon, strengthening his forces within the kingdoms borders…

I know this scenario is ridiculous, but I am a big fan of the Darth Jar Jar theory, it its fun to think of similarly comical situations and apply it to HeroQuest. Too often such speculations are more entertaining than what we eventually get.

[Markus Darwath]

Only problem with this theory is how is "Zargon" in the Northern "Dread" wastes commanding his troops while Mentor is behind the "King's" lines advising the heroes?

You actually nailed it further on in your post. Dissociative Identity Disorder + Magic = Evil Clone!

[Kurgan]

Still, any excuse to give me a midnight blue "Mentor" figure labelled "Zargon" is fine by me...

[wallydubbs]

Cristobal (aka "Morcar") has reported rumors before about the idea that Hasbro is going to push HeroQuest into the "D&D World" or somehow try to merge the two franchises together (Hasbro owns both these days), maybe to get people who grew up playing our game to go over to that game (good luck with that, I have little interest in D&D, although I enjoyed some of the video games and the cartoon when I was a kid). But I haven't seen anything official to convince me that's what's going to happen (and I hope it doesn't... if they're going to do a crossover, I'd much rather see it be with Warhammer again, as that would be much more fitting). I predict it would cause a split in the community if they did such a thing. D&D hardcores will stay with D&D, and HeroQuest hardcores will stay with HQ. Fans could always mix them together all along, but many will choose not to. For all we care it is still "loosely based" in the world of Warhammer Fantasy of the late 80's/early 90's, or else our own headcanon world.

I feel they already started D&Ding Hero Quest, at least on a minute level. Hero Quest doesn't require all the categories and level ups of D&D as it's simpler that way, so thankfully this has yet to be implemented. But many of the new characters seem to have been built out of D&D. The Barbarian, Wizard, Dwarf and Elf are either classes or races in D&D. But in Hero Quest they are generic archetypes that players can build up off of. But in D&D this is where you'd find Demonically possessed Hobbits and Orc Bard's. The implement of unique abilities per character is very D&Dish. But I totally understand why they did it. For characters like the Knight and Rogue it kinda works... But the Monk is kinda hard to get behind... I don't see where he fits in Hero Quest unless Zargon's running some Street Fighter tournament on the side that we don't know about.

[Alby87]

Maybe Morcar is a magically generated twin/clone of Mentor? Just think something like this: a impatient talented young wizard called Morcar discovers the powerful Chaos magic. Curiosity, needs and a pinch of incoscience make him study that school of magic. Mad with power, Morcar tryied a spell to channel even better Chaos, removing his Order persona. But he didn't know that persona would spawn as a person in front of him.

Now we have Morcar (with the original name), a powerful chaos consumed evil wizard, and a unnamed clone, a good one. Those battled, as they had the same skill, for days and tied. The clone escaped, but got the book that contains anything, including what started Morcar's descent in to the chaos. That book is the Loretome. The clone joined the king's rankings, and when asked for a name, he decided to not explain the situation, and instead using a pseudonym indicating what he wanted to do to defeat his "brother". He would teach heroes to combat Chaos forces. His name would be Mentor.

This would really explain, in a 80s fantasy way, why both are similar, in the GM screen and in the manual. With this, Morcar (or Zargon) miniature can be a rework of the Mythic Tier one. We can have a one on one with both wizards battling at the end of this quest pack!

[Kurgan]

This is reminding me of the fans who were speculating that "Senator Palpatine" and "Darth Sideous" were different people when Star Wars Episode I came out.