AHQ - Overland Travel

[b_0]

It's interesting. The bestiary could use some expansion.

You are right. Only added some ideas from greywolf. I've been thinking to make an expanded Bestiary book one day.
But got some other things I'd like to do first. So many hobby idea's, so little time

It would be nice if there was simple standardized format that would be shared by various projects so that additions to each project would be compatible with the others. I've been making some creature cards trying to make them similar to the originals with pictures of miniatures so that I can just expand the original card sheets without needing to replace the originals.

For example, I made this card...

UOC.png

...for this "Ral Partha Europe" miniature

uh1.jpg

(This miniature costs less than $6): https://www.ralparthaeurope.co.uk/shop/fantasy-warband-rpg-minis-28mm-c-181/monsters-and-beasts-c-181_206/undead-ogre-p-4794.html

It could also be nice if there was a centralized place for people to post their bestiary additions so that it's not only one person creating everything. Japans United Gaming Society on youtube has a nice system to convert 3rd Edition Warhammer stuff to AHQ and they've made some interesting additions which I wish other projects would incorporate.

[b_0]

As usual , you can find this on my Google Drive (link updated 30/12/24)
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... drive_link

The forest hazard table has an error, for #5 Militia, it says "Pool of dreams" where it should say "Militia". This problem does not exist in the adventure book.

[RECIVS]

It's interesting. The bestiary could use some expansion.

You are right. Only added some ideas from greywolf. I've been thinking to make an expanded Bestiary book one day.
But got some other things I'd like to do first. So many hobby idea's, so little time

Considering the original "card" format you use (with your artwork, the to-hit rolls, and the monster matrices), it could take you a very long time, believe me. Mine took me years, and I didn't even get into that, which is not essential, by the way. In fact, I believe I'd still be working on it if I had used the said format or started from scratch!

No one has to go through that (ever) again. You can simply take mine and focus on the format and artwork alone, which I believe is your thing. I'd be honored, by the way. I think it's clear by now that I'm more of a rules lawyer than a visual artist. I guess that's why they both usually work together to produce BGs.

they've made some interesting additions which I wish other projects would incorporate.

Interesting. Could you please provide some examples and tell us how they improve gameplay?

[b_0]

they've made some interesting additions which I wish other projects would incorporate.

Interesting. Could you please provide some examples and tell us how they improve gameplay?

J.U.G.S. has a host of add-ons for AHQ in this playlist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OFYgXv ... 9-T1dODAkl
I'm mostly interested in their new enemies and associated rules. I thought the J.U.G.S. ghosts had interesting mechanics, but I was commenting prior to the release of Graeme Davis's long lost Undead Suppliment which has remarkably similar rules for ghosts. The J.U.G.S. Verminlord includes an interesting addition of rules for ensorcelled weapons. The rules for rival factions might also be useful.

[RECIVS]

J.U.G.S. has a host of add-ons for AHQ in this playlist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OFYgXv ... 9-T1dODAkl
I'm mostly interested in their new enemies and associated rules.

Thank you for bringing it to my attention. I just commented on this video of theirs. They say PV20 is the maximum for a monster in AHQ; I had never heard that before.

[Thanquol]

No, an individual monster's points value (PV) is not set at a maximum limit of PV 20 for the Advanced Heroquest rules or related official material.

Advanced Heroquest Rulebook (page 40)

[...] For each monster, we've worked out a modifier that shows the relative strength of the different types; this is known as the monster's points value (PV). For example, Goblins are worth a ½-point, Skaven are worth 1 point. This means you can replace Skaven with Goblins on a 1∶2 basis when you draw up your own monster tables. ...

A PV is only a relative guideline for Advanced Heroquest. Furthermore, Praznagar, Prince of Agony didn't have such a value because he was unique – he'd be off the scale.

I suspect 'Japan's United Gaming Society' came to the wrong conclusion because they were looking at the 'Greater Daemon of Tzeentch', which simply has a PV of 20. Furthermore, their video "An Analysis of the Rules for Bloodthirsters" at around [13:19] made suggestive rather than definitive comments.

In the video it said they themselves had given the Bloodthirster a maximum of twenty points, just like the Greater Daemon of Tzeentch. And also the Keeper of Secrets and Vermin Lord were given PV 20; the latter two seem to be their own homebrew houserules, etc. So for their "conversions" maybe they imposed an unofficial rule of a maximum PV of 20? The official Advanced Heroquest rules and material certainly never had such a limit.

Count Rutger, Johannes von Bleistift, [White Dwarf magazine issue: 159 (March 1993), Rivers of Blood (page 53)], has a PV value of 22. That could be a typographical error; however, it's likely he had that high value even though he was a unique character monster.

BoardGameGeek has inaccuracies about the expansion 'Terror in the Dark' (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/175 ... n-the-dark) saying things like "the Lichemaster (the villain from the original HeroQuest game)". That's clearly old codswallop, whereas the Wikipedia entry (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_HeroQuest) is correct; "[...] Contrary to popular belief, the Lichemaster did not appear in the original HeroQuest game. Instead, this character is loosely based on Heinrich Kemmler, a necromancer from the Warhammer Fantasy Battle Lichemaster campaign. ..."

Personally I believe the ('Japan's United Gaming Society') video was referring to their own interpretations of rules and creations only or they had made a serious blunder. The former is more likely.

Sarcasm: Know me and tremble, spleenless-mouse, and beg my indulgence for your Impiety. /Sarcasm

[RECIVS]

Thank you for your reply. As I said, I had never heard that PV20 is the limit; I don't recall anyone ever saying that before. Quest-specific enemies such as Praznagar are not the problem here, as we don't need to assess their PV at all.

I really don't see where they're coming from with this idea of PV20 being the limit, blunder or not; it cripples the game system's potential in my opinion. Are they suggesting, then, that bigger, more powerful enemies are off scale? As I've posted in other threads, the original game system is quite flexible, and it allows for the implementation of almost any monster or creature we can come up with (within its constrains, of course) as long as we get the PV assessments right. By "right" I mean that proportion and consistency are kept throughout the bestiary. That's the tricky part we should be looking into if we are to properly improve and evolve AHQ! I mean, from my point of view, we should be focusing on getting the said assessments right instead of limiting the whole game system altogether.

For example, let's add a couple of fireball spells to the monster in the video I posted above. What would its PV be, then? why? Are they saying that it would be off-scale?

[Thanquol]

From what I gather by viewing two or three other of the Japan's United Gaming Society videos about 'Advanced Heroquest'...

I believe loosely 'Japan's United Gaming Society' determined their own points value (PV) system by analysing monsters from Advanced Heroquest (AHQ) and Warhammer Fantasy Battle (WHFB), grouping them into broad categories based on relative strength. They used AHQ's 'Monster Reference Tables' and 'Character Reference Tables' as their foundation, though as you know these tables only contain a limited selection of creatures.

From this, they identified the lowest bracket as ½ PV (Goblin) and the highest as 20 PV, with the 'Greater Daemon of Tzeentch' at PV 20 which they seemingly treated as the upper limit. Since official data beyond that point was scarce, they examined AHQ's existing monster PVs and observed that the 'Greater Daemon of Tzeentch' had a value of 20 - the highest in the official AHQ rulebook tables. They then looked at WHFB monster profiles, particularly Greater Daemons, and decided to apply PV 20 as the upper limit for AHQ conversions, grouping the most powerful creatures within that bracket.

For conversions, they examined WHFB statistic profiles, compared them to the handful of AHQ creatures with official PVs, and placed monsters into ranked brackets accordingly.

Essentially, their approach was an "educated guess" based on comparative analysis, but it was entirely self-imposed rather than drawn from any official AHQ material.

This seems to have led to the misconception that AHQ had an official PV cap, but as I discussed earlier, no such limit exists in the official material.

Of course in Advanced Heroquest PV counts are likely not as important as it is would be for Warhammer Fantasy Battle units, etc. Other than as loose guide for the monster ratios, or potential monster loot.

[RECIVS]

Essentially, their approach was an "educated guess" based on comparative analysis, but it was entirely self-imposed rather than drawn from any official AHQ material.

This seems to have led to the misconception that AHQ had an official PV cap, but as I discussed earlier, no such limit exists in the official material.

Of course in Advanced Heroquest PV counts are likely not as important as it is would be for Warhammer Fantasy Battle units, etc. Other than as loose guide for the monster ratios, or potential monster loot.

Of course there’s no official PV cap in AHQ, and I still don’t see where they’re coming from with that idea. I mean, in the end, what's the benefit or advantage of even suggesting such a limit?

PV counts are essential in AHQ for the purpose of creating monster matrices and new custom creatures as I’ve shown above. You may want to check out my expanded bestiary for AHQ to see what I’m talking about.

[Thanquol]

I've never played Warhammer Fantasy Battle (WHFB), so I am not that familiar with the full range of suitable Bestiary or its game rules. However, I would suspect Dragons, theoretically, would have a higher PV than the average Greater Daemon type. Thus, I'm not sure how suitable the empirical formula 'Japan's United Gaming Society' was using to convert WHFB monsters to Advanced Heroquest (AHQ) monsters – or how well their categorisation translates.

In the Advanced Heroquest: Undead Supplement by Graeme Davis, his rough, unfinished, and unofficial notes placed a Vampire Lord at PV 24. AHQ's PV system was possibly meant as a loose guideline rather than a rigid formula, making the idea of a hard cap somewhat arbitrary.

However, quite clearly, when individual monsters reach PV 20 or above, the odds are they will be the equivalent of "bosses" or meant for the 'Character Reference Tables'. Essentially, they will be 'named monsters' or possess incredible strength or abilities – they aren't designed to be "cannon-fodder" replacements.

A question worth asking is: on average, how many generic individual (i.e. single model) monster types would realistically exceed PV 20?

If your Heroes are quite happy to be chewing through a nest of, let's say, several 'Greater Daemons of Tzeentch' (PV 20) in one random Lair room, the odds are that they are overpowered or nearing demigod status anyway.

Therefore, if a 'Keeper of Secrets' was PV 20, and another monster – such as a 'Bloodthirster' wielding a Monster Magic Item that granted it a magical "Fireball" attack – was PV 22, what are the benefits of the PV difference? The impact would be either negligible or diminishing returns. In effect, your heroes would likely be ascending to godhood.

Veteran Heroes in AHQ would typically already possess magical items that mitigate most spell damage or bypass the 'Invulnerable' property. They might also have access to magic items or spells that could instantly destroy or banish a weaker daemon – or severely wound it.

I suspect the reason 'Japan's United Gaming Society' chose PV 20 as the maximum limit was, at least in part, for manageability and simplicity. Their reasoning for this is likely explained – but buried somewhere – in one of their AHQ-related YouTube videos. You'll just have to hope they respond to your enquiries.

Do I personally agree with their self-imposed PV cap of 20? Probably not. However, I can certainly understand why they might have arrived at that decision.


Sarcasm: I am ten times stronger than I pretend to be! Yes-yes! The fools underestimate me, but soon they shall tremble before my might! /Sarcasm