Enhanced Advanced Heroquest - Spells during exploration?

[BubbaBobba]

I can't seem to find any comment on this so far online. I was wondering what the consensus is for using spells during exploration phase? With the way spells are designed for EAH, you could essentially heal your whole party between combat phases very easily and even abuse spells such as open window.

Can anyone shed some light on this? My assumption is that you can only use 3 spells (before having to roll to avoid negative effects) in an entire exploration phase, meaning from when a battle is completed to when the next is begun, rather than every time you move you party up to their 12 squares as this would seem to be far too overpowered.

[Dieterdg84]

I can't seem to find any comment on this so far online. I was wondering what the consensus is for using spells during exploration phase? With the way spells are designed for EAH, you could essentially heal your whole party between combat phases very easily and even abuse spells such as open window.

Can anyone shed some light on this? My assumption is that you can only use 3 spells (before having to roll to avoid negative effects) in an entire exploration phase, meaning from when a battle is completed to when the next is begun, rather than every time you move you party up to their 12 squares as this would seem to be far too overpowered.

Your question was one of the main reasons why I was trying to get in contact with Gunzhard (creator of Enhanced).

The Wizard, Mage and Fighter-Mage are indeed very overpowered in the EAHQ rules. An easy "fix" is to also use the Tremors in the Warp rule during the exploration phase.
Or what I did is reintroducing the spell components. The wizard in my current campaign gets 15 free components per expedition.
He can choose to buy more for 25GC each between expeditions.

I'm also using the Toughness houserule RECIVS invented: https://www.recivsprojects.org/advanced-heroquest

A damage roll of 10+ always scores a wound unless the target's unmodified TH is 12 or if its modified TH is 14+, in which cases a roll of 11+ is required to damage.
TH tests are resolved as normal (versus the modified stat value if any).

These are the only 2 extra houserules I'm using in my current campaign, and we're having a blast

[BubbaBobba]

Yeah there's a couple of things I've been trying to clarify in my mind with the EAH rules, while they are extensive, it seems like a handful of minor things could do with clarification (having said this, too much explanation can bog down rules also).

I had developed my own Mana type system similar to what you are describing however at this point I can't be bothered with additional stat management etc while playing as I am playing solo and am trying to streamline things in order to save time.

While the magic users are a bit overpowered, with the addition of 2 square wide doors which Increases difficulty, I think the idea of being able to heal up between combat is probably not so bad as the base difficulty of the game is very high without changing enemy stats etc which is dealt with in Reforged.

I guess in exploration phase there is still the chance of wandering monsters and traps so the idea of only having 3 spells between combat phases may not be too OP?

One other rule I can't figure out is how diagonal movement works in terms of moving between and enemy and a doorway. For instance, if there are two heros and two enemies both in the doorway with no other obstacles or characters, could an enemy simply move in a diagonal fashion to go out of the room past the hero blocking the doorway. In turn it would be much more difficult to block doorways and could negate a lot of the issues of bottlenecking that plague the base game.

I hope my description makes sense, I can draw it out if further explanation is required.

[Stabsam]

One other rule I can't figure out is how diagonal movement works in terms of moving between and enemy and a doorway. For instance, if there are two heros and two enemies both in the doorway with no other obstacles or characters, could an enemy simply move in a diagonal fashion to go out of the room past the hero blocking the doorway. In turn it would be much more difficult to block doorways and could negate a lot of the issues of bottlenecking that plague the base game.

I always tried to play the game more aggressively. So i would enter the room completely and prevent those bottleneck situations. Just standing in the doorways and killing them off one by one makes the game pointless to me.
But i get your Q. I wouldn't allow moving diagonally like this and also no diagonal movement around corners. I only allow it in free space and between 2 friendly characters as well.
But on the other hand if you use the door strat allowing diagonally movement like you described seems meaning full since if you truly want to close up doors you would need 2 more characters on the sides. But then the next question arises is this meta really fun to play over and over?

[BubbaBobba]

Yeah you're definitely right that fighting in doorways isn't fun. I think that the way that characters are scattered in 'reforged' and the full rewrite of how surprise and enemy placement works in re-reforged are both good options. Thematically it would make sense that if the players were surprised, they may have had enemies coming at them from the hallway and are pulled into the room. There's obviously a suspension of disbelief that needs to take place however.

Im currently experimenting with using premade battle mats and some new rules regarding room generation to try and spice up combat a bit. I feel that the AHQ combat shines in large open spaces and quest rooms of a 12x12 square space for Instance with the heroes entering in the the room via a staircase would allow for more interesting combat.

[Dieterdg84]

One other rule I can't figure out is how diagonal movement works in terms of moving between and enemy and a doorway. For instance, if there are two heros and two enemies both in the doorway with no other obstacles or characters, could an enemy simply move in a diagonal fashion to go out of the room past the hero blocking the doorway. In turn it would be much more difficult to block doorways and could negate a lot of the issues of bottlenecking that plague the base game.

In my playgroup we just finished a Descent 2nd edition campaign that almost took us a year to complete.
So we got very used of using that ruleset of movement, so it felt normal for us to allow that way of cutting corners through doorways or corridors.
I always thought that was the main reason of introducing diagonal movement in the Enhanced edition.

Blocking the doorways with 4 characters could be a tactic. But when my group would start doing that over and over, I would just stick to the PV's rolled on the table but add a long range weapon monster or 2 to the pack.
That way the glass canons are no longer in cover and the party will hopefully change their playstyle . The joys of being a GM , keeping things fresh for the players.

As you might have noticed, I'm not a native English speaker so below a little visual just to be sure we're talking about the same thing:



I allow this kind of movement in my campaign (after dealing with the Death Zone rule ofcourse).

[BubbaBobba]

In my playgroup we just finished a Descent 2nd edition campaign that almost took us a year to complete.
So we got very used of using that ruleset of movement, so it felt normal for us to allow that way of cutting corners through doorways or corridors.
I always thought that was the main reason of introducing diagonal movement in the Enhanced edition.

Blocking the doorways with 4 characters could be a tactic. But when my group would start doing that over and over, I would just stick to the PV's rolled on the table but add a long range weapon monster or 2 to the pack.
That way the glass canons are no longer in cover and the party will hopefully change their playstyle . The joys of being a GM , keeping things fresh for the players.

As you might have noticed, I'm not a native English speaker so below a little visual just to be sure we're talking about the same thing:



I allow this kind of movement in my campaign (after dealing with the Death Zone rule ofcourse).

Yes this is precisely the manoeuvre I was referring to. Personally I think it should be allowed but a strength test or a movement penalty should probably apply.

The other thing I'm also considering including in my house rules is the Warhammer Quest version of line of sight for missile weapons. It states that you may fire through anything as long as its not a wall. Personally I think you should be able to fire through a friendly unit with an obscured penalty of +4 range and obviously whichever enemy unit it first in line would be hit, you wouldn't be able to launch over multiple enemies to conveniently hit a specific enemy. I think this would give a lot more use to archers and ranged attacks as often getting line of sight in a small room or in hallways etc is very tedious. Not sure how you handle ranged attacks and line of sight in your campaign but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

Ps your English is great and your diagram was perfect!

[Dieterdg84]

I agree that shooting through friendly players needs to be possible. I already find the ranged combat quite limited since the game doesn't allow move & shoot..
Things might even get worse once the heroes bring along some henchmen who will block the LOS aswel.. So using the obscured penalty is a great way to fix this.
We're playing our next part of the campaign tomorrow night. Will be implementing this rule aswel.

[RECIVS]

I can't seem to find any comment on this so far online. I was wondering what the consensus is for using spells during exploration phase? With the way spells are designed for EAH, you could essentially heal your whole party between combat phases very easily and even abuse spells such as open window.

Your question was one of the main reasons why I was trying to get in contact with Gunzhard (creator of Enhanced).
The Wizard, Mage and Fighter-Mage are indeed very overpowered in the EAHQ rules. An easy "fix" is to also use the Tremors in the Warp rule during the exploration phase.

I never understood why Gunzhard had to change the way magic works in AHQ if he was to preserve the vanilla rules. I don't think he ever explained his reasons. My guess is that he wanted to lower the difficulty of the game somewhat.

By the way, I just noticed the link to his missing files is posted here.

Or what I did is reintroducing the spell components. The wizard in my current campaign gets 15 free components per expedition. He can choose to buy more for 25GC each between expeditions.

Yes, I think reintroducing spell components is the way to go. 15 free components per expedition seem like a lot, though.

I'm also using the Toughness houserule RECIVS invented: https://www.recivsprojects.org/advanced-heroquest

A damage roll of 10+ always scores a wound unless the target's unmodified TH is 12 or if its modified TH is 14+, in which cases a roll of 11+ is required to damage.
TH tests are resolved as normal (versus the modified stat value if any).

These are the only 2 extra houserules I'm using in my current campaign, and we're having a blast

I’m flattered.

I can't be bothered with additional stat management etc

I'm not quite sure what do you mean by this.

the base difficulty of the game is very high without changing enemy stats etc which is dealt with in Reforged.

I think you already know my opinion on Slev's approach.

One other rule I can't figure out is how diagonal movement works in terms of moving between and enemy and a doorway. For instance, if there are two heros and two enemies both in the doorway with no other obstacles or characters, could an enemy simply move in a diagonal fashion to go out of the room past the hero blocking the doorway. In turn it would be much more difficult to block doorways and could negate a lot of the issues of bottlenecking that plague the base game.

I tested this some years ago, and it didn't feel right. Walls and opponents should block diagonal movement in my opinion. Besides, it would still incentivize the adventurers to block doorways. I think the push mechanic may be more appropriate to deal with bottleneck situations.

I always tried to play the game more aggressively. So i would enter the room completely and prevent those bottleneck situations.

I assume it ended badly for the adventurers almost every time.

Just standing in the doorways and killing them off one by one makes the game pointless to me.

I wouldn't allow moving diagonally like this and also no diagonal movement around corners. I only allow it in free space and between 2 friendly characters as well.
But on the other hand if you use the door strat allowing diagonally movement like you described seems meaning full since if you truly want to close up doors you would need 2 more characters on the sides. But then the next question arises is this meta really fun to play over and over?

I couldn't agree more with everything you said here.

Yeah you're definitely right that fighting in doorways isn't fun.

It's definitely not fun, and it''s a waste of the system's potential in my opinion. I still don't understand why anyone would insist on playing the game that way. If that's not a flawed mechanic, then I don't know what it is.

I think that the way that characters are scattered in 'reforged' and the full rewrite of how surprise and enemy placement works in re-reforged are both good options.

Slev's (new) system for random placement of monsters sounds good on paper, but in practice it translates to even more dice rolling and longer downtimes every time a new lair or quest room is discovered.

Thematically it would make sense that if the players were surprised, they may have had enemies coming at them from the hallway and are pulled into the room.

As I said in another thread, the cover art of the game doesn’t depict adventurers fighting through a doorway because it wouldn’t be as appealing then, realistic or not. On the other hand, please take a look at the image on page 14 of the AHQ rulebook. That's how it should look when the monsters are surprised, but the vanilla rules don't allow for that, unfortunately. In the same way, the images on pages 24 and 53 of the said rulebook show how it should look when the adventurers are surprised (or ambushed), but the original rules don't allow for that either.

There's obviously a suspension of disbelief that needs to take place however.

I'm not sure what do you mean by this.

Im currently experimenting with using premade battle mats and some new rules regarding room generation to try and spice up combat a bit.

Sounds Interesting. I'm looking forward to the playtest version. What's a "premade battle mat", though?

I feel that the AHQ combat shines in large open spaces and quest rooms of a 12x12 square space for Instance with the heroes entering in the the room via a staircase would allow for more interesting combat.

How would you deal with enemy reinforcements if the entrance to the room is through a staircase? Unless I'm missing something, it seems the adventurers would end up surrounded by monsters regardless of the size of the room. I believe AHQ combat should work in such a way that it may shine in any situation.

Blocking the doorways with 4 characters could be a tactic. But when my group would start doing that over and over, I would just stick to the PV's rolled on the table but add a long range weapon monster or 2 to the pack.
That way the glass canons are no longer in cover and the party will hopefully change their playstyle . The joys of being a GM , keeping things fresh for the players.

What do you mean by "the glass canons are no longer in cover and the party will hopefully change their playstyle"?

I allow this kind of movement in my campaign (after dealing with the Death Zone rule ofcourse).

So, in total there're three house rules you're using then? By "dealing with the DZ rule" you mean diagonal-reach weapons?

Yes this is precisely the manoeuvre I was referring to. Personally I think it should be allowed but a strength test or a movement penalty should probably apply.

That's why diagonal movement costs double in my system when allowed. If you're adding a strength test, then I still think the push mechanic may be more appropriate to deal with bottleneck situations.

The other thing I'm also considering including in my house rules is the Warhammer Quest version of line of sight for missile weapons. It states that you may fire through anything as long as its not a wall. Personally I think you should be able to fire through a friendly unit with an obscured penalty of +4 range and obviously whichever enemy unit it first in line would be hit, you wouldn't be able to launch over multiple enemies to conveniently hit a specific enemy. I think this would give a lot more use to archers and ranged attacks as often getting line of sight in a small room or in hallways etc is very tedious. Not sure how you handle ranged attacks and line of sight in your campaign but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

That's why planning ahead the moves of you ranged adventurers is part of the fun. How could it be tedious to get line of sight in rooms if the adventurers are supposed to fight through doorways? I don't see how it could be a problem in corridors, as you can simply place your archers behind your other models as needed.

I agree that shooting through friendly players needs to be possible.

It's possible, though not as easy as in WHQ.

I already find the ranged combat quite limited since the game doesn't allow move & shoot..

That's why Slev allows move+shoot (or shoot+move) with certain weapons and abilities. My revision allows it too.

[Dieterdg84]

Yes, I think reintroducing spell components is the way to go. 15 free components per expedition seem like a lot, though.

We're still using the Tremors in the warp ruleset combined with that though. But you might be right, I'm keeping the components on 15 during this campaign.
But I might lower it to 8 the next time and see how that feels. If that fails: It's back to classic casting rules without Tremors in the warp.

What do you mean by "the glass canons are no longer in cover and the party will hopefully change their playstyle"?

Well, since I allow the diagonal movement like on the image I posted above, they might block the doorway with 4 heroes standing next to eachother.
Meaning the caster (aka the glass cannon ) is still vulnerable to 2-handed weapons since they can attack diagonally.
I would just spawn some monsters with 2-handed weapons instead.

When I GM I try to keep things fresh, and if that means changing some mobs around, sure why not. I do stick to the total Point Values though.
In my opinion, the purpose of a GM in this game is to keep things interesting and challenging.
Changing the monster formations so they have to re-think their tactics is one of those thing I tend to do during a campaign.
That's not really possible with solo play though. And some purists might consider this cheating .

So, in total there're three house rules you're using then? By "dealing with the DZ rule" you mean diagonal-reach weapons?

Suppose I am. To be honest I really thought this was allowed by reading the Enhanced Rulebook. But like I said before:
We've been playing alot of Descent 2nd edition over the years, which allows that kind of movement. So it felt natural for us to allow this.

That's why Slev allows move+shoot (or shoot+move) with certain weapons and abilities. My revision allows it too.

Yes, It makes sense to be honest. Our Elf ranger in the current campaign feels a bit underpowerd because of this.
His allies are a Barbarian (move & attack), Fighter Mage (move and attack/cast) and a Dwarf Warrior (move & attack).
But when he gets a shot out, It's pretty much Legolas². Got very lucky with his character creation stats.