Make a small donation to Ye Olde Inn!
Every cent received goes toward Ye Olde Inn's maintenance and allows us to continue providing the best resources for HeroQuest and Fantasy Gaming fans.
Make a small donation to Ye Olde Inn!
Every cent received goes toward Ye Olde Inn's maintenance and allows us to continue providing the best resources for HeroQuest and Fantasy Gaming fans.
Stig wrote:I'm really getting in to reading all of the variants.
Stig wrote:I'm starting to be of the opinion is that what's holding Advanced Heroquest back is the random dungeon generation - in my opinion that should only be one way to play it, like an expansion pack/add-on, not the usual way of playing it. The distinctive nature of Heroquest is the map generation in advance, which allows for so much narrative.
Stig wrote:The different door solution variants to the surprise roll look cool too, I do like the roll-off system of Extreme Heroquest, where each are placed in a "deployment zone", mitigating the corridor issue. What are your thoughts on using the difference in surprise to determine how many figures go first? All of the others seem to have either ALL the Heroes or ALL the Monsters; but it might make the game a little more granular if a couple get activated, play shifts to the GM/Heroes, then the others get activated? Almost like a semi-surprise:
RECIVS wrote:I don't see how AHQ's random map generation could limit the narrative though; the system still allows you to design your own adventures if that's your thing. Anyway, as far as I remember, the original AHQ campaigns come generated in advance.
RECIVS wrote:Stig wrote:The different door solution variants to the surprise roll look cool too, I do like the roll-off system of Extreme Heroquest, where each are placed in a "deployment zone", mitigating the corridor issue. What are your thoughts on using the difference in surprise to determine how many figures go first? All of the others seem to have either ALL the Heroes or ALL the Monsters; but it might make the game a little more granular if a couple get activated, play shifts to the GM/Heroes, then the others get activated? Almost like a semi-surprise:
Interesting. I'd need to test it, but at first glance it seems that all the encounters in rooms would play pretty much the same. Leaving Henchmen and Reinforcements aside (which you still need to factor in), if the Heroes are allowed to be placed freely within the deployment zone, then I predict that the same two characters will always be at the front, and they will activate first every time. On the other hand, why changing the original activation mechanic? I'm not a fan of random activation in AHQ, as I believe it may become even more luck dependent and, therefore, unnecessarily harder and less interesting (for much of the fun comes from planning and executing tactics as a team). It may also make encounters in rooms somewhat longer, and I don't think that increasing the duration and difficulty of encounters while reducing the Heroes' involvement is a good idea.
Stig wrote:That’s what I was thinking, the original and Enhanced! consistently suggest making maps in advance like HQ. With random generation I was referring to quest notes eg “this treasure chest contains a key to the prisoner in room B”, teleport traps...ie the way sections of the map link together that’s easily constructed in HQ. Nothing stopping AHQ from having quest notes though. They’d just take a different form I imagine: “The first bookcase encountered contains a healing potion”, Monsters in the first Lair have +1 WS” etc. Instead of map locations with notes, it could be the order dungeon elements are found in. Basically space is swapped for time.
Stig wrote:Sure thing, I was just thinking of a simple yet elegant design principle that’s widely used today in modern games, which is eschewing the IGOUGO principle of 90s era GW in favour of activating smaller portions of a force at once. This has proved very enjoyable as both players are always involved, and the Surprise roll might somehow be the way to do that.
Stig wrote:Activating every figure on one side whilst the others stand and watch seems a bit odd - does it make the success of encounters heavily reliant on winning surprise? If one side wins surprise, they weaken the other, making it harder to regain advantage?
Stig wrote:I also haven’t understood how Extreme! is meaningfully any different: the two sides are placed in a described deployment zone and the winners move all their models first.
RECIVS wrote: That's correct. It's actually more varied and unpredictable that way, even for the GM!
RECIVS wrote:Stig wrote:Sure thing, I was just thinking of a simple yet elegant design principle that’s widely used today in modern games, which is eschewing the IGOUGO principle of 90s era GW in favour of activating smaller portions of a force at once. This has proved very enjoyable as both players are always involved, and the Surprise roll might somehow be the way to do that.
Examples? I assume those modern games you're referring to were designed around such a mechanic. In this case you're trying to fit it into a system that wasn't designed for that (like adding dice rolls to chess). Perhaps it may work for encounters with wandering monsters (in which the number or monsters is similar to the number of adventurers and the deployment options are more varied), but I fail to see how it could do any good to room encounters in which the deployment options are limited and the monsters usually come in greater numbers than the adventurers. For example, when four adventurers face a group of twelve monsters in a room, how many deployment options do the adventurers and monsters really have in such a situation? do the adventurers and monsters get to choose their starting positions every time? what happens after all the adventurers have moved but more than half of the monsters have not? (that would be odd indeed). More interesting even: what happens after those same twelve monsters receive reinforcements? Perhaps I'm missing something, but, as I said, I think it'd simply make the game even more luck dependent, unnecessarily harder (it's hard enough as it is), and less interesting (as tactical planning, the heart of the game, is hindered). Also, I think you're forgetting about fumbles, which are there to keep both players involved in combat.
RECIVS wrote:Stig wrote:I also haven’t understood how Extreme! is meaningfully any different: the two sides are placed in a described deployment zone and the winners move all their models first.
It's indeed the same concept. Experience shows, however, that both sides (most likely) will place their models in the same positions every time (the strongest adventurers or "tanks" will go at the front, the monsters will be separated to avoid the effects of fireballs, etc.). The same happens when each side is allowed to place their opponent's models. In fact, the first version of my Doorway-Exploit Fix (released about eight years ago) was very similar to what you're proposing but without the "partial activations"; I abandoned it for its repetitive results after some weeks of playtesting.
Stig wrote:Thanks for going through this - really appreciate the help with reading these ancient tomes!
Stig wrote:This is really growing on me - have you seen this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEE6aHqZyXE&t=17s
Seems like a great idea to speed up generation of new dungeon elements.
Stig wrote:As you say the game was designed around this mechanic.
Stig wrote:I also loved your solution for the doorway problem on the blog with the tables that incorporate how much the surprise roll was lost by - that's a really neat idea to make the experience so different.
Stig wrote:Man I can't wait to actually play this game.
Stig wrote:and the point of doorway solutions is to provide variation in the deployment of heroes and monsters?
Davane wrote:There's a sweet spot where cards work better than tables
RECIVS wrote:Davane wrote:There's a sweet spot where cards work better than tables
I'm not sure about that, for reasons already posted.
RECIVS wrote:That being said, perhaps you've seen my time-saving method for dealing with all the dice rolling required by the system.
RECIVS wrote:Stig wrote:Man I can't wait to actually play this game.
May I ask what's holding you?
Return to Advanced HeroQuest Room
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest