how do I balance this game? and speed question

[sephnroth]

We've been playing AHQ for quite a while and im running into some problems. Im sure we dont play it "right" but the manual is one of the most confusing books i've ever had to read with snippits of VERY important information just snuck into random paragraphs on random pages!

But the main problem I'm having is I seem to of missed how this game scales with the players. For example theres a guy whos toughness and weaponskill is so high I have to roll a 12 twice to do 1 wound of damage. He seems immortal. There is a skaven that weilds a magic halberd and something in rules said about it dropping but now end result is nearly every player has a magic halberd because the monster isnt uncommon. How do I stop players becomming "invincible"?

I'm reading these updated rules I saw on the forums by the way, they look great!

My last question is speed. One or two players in particular are very very very slow. When they play we barely finish one floor of a dungeon in the whole evening. I dont think anything can be done about it whilst keeping the game inclusive.. but how do people handle stuff like that usually?

thanks!

[JasonMCM]

I'm rather sure that this rule set wan't tested very well with Higher level characters.

I think that Warhammer Quest fixed the move issue that while during the exploration phases all the heroes move with a 12. (You could always adjust that with a +1/-1 for really fast/slow heroes.)

[torilen]

If overpowered characters is a regular problem, you just might be playing something wrong, as you have suggested.
I've never looked at the AHQ rules, so I honestly cannot speak to that, though. To keep this from happening, you can
always house-rule certain things
- limit armor and weapons and skills at times
- fudge rolls for monsters sometimes
- beef up monsters, especially early on, if power is a regular problem - this will put them in their place more often
- don't allow them to get those magical halberds - say their damaged...say they don't know how to use them...say they're
.....enchanted with chaos magic and it will cause them to slowly turn to chaos each turn they use it.

There is one theory to take away from simple roleplaying games (like D&D) - if the heroes can become powerful, so can
the evil that they fight. The same weapons, armor, and skill are available to everybody if they live in the same world.

[Schmidt]

http://download16.mediafire.com/mywfscs ... lebook.pdf

If you want to read ahq rulebook

[mitchiemasha]

Never played it but I've got it and read parts of the rule book for inspiration. I bought mine for the pieces.

The rule book for me is filled with so much unnecessary information, endless waffle!!! I got the impression AHQ was brutal for the heroes and you were lucky even to survive to level up much. That's what many have said put them off from the game. Been a massive HQ fan when I was first reading through the rules off AHQ i was like 'oh i don't like that' as many things are different, opposite. I like the idea of predrawn maps etc. It wasn't til reading further in i got to start appreciating how a dungeon might keep expanding as you're continually searching around for the stairs to get further down, drawing out the map as you explore.

You might want to consider Warhammer Quest or a modified HQ instead.

As for speed I like to add in a timer, the longer the heroes take the more Dungeon tokens the DM picks.

[torilen]

Here is a good tip - make generous use of the random event table on page 36 of the rule book.
This will, at least, remove gold and/or magic items - if not keep heroes from adventuring for
a quest at times.

Strictly enforce the spell component costs. In fact, create spell components for ALL spells.
Not only will this ensure the group has to spend their gold, but it will add depth to the game
and could lead to some good side quests. Maybe the region in which they adventure does not
have a spell component - they need to go find it in the wild.

Make sure you're using all the weapons and armors correctly. For example, a character with a
strength of 8, using a sword, should be rolling 6 dice to determine damage, if I am reading this
correctly. I don't see why you would have to roll a 12 twice. Granted, you might have to actually
roll a 12 with each damage die, but each 12 would still be 1 wound, unless I missed something.
So, the character I used for example (rolling 6 damage dice) ought to be causing at least one
wound with each roll, I would think.

Of course - I don't know what you do when the toughness gets above 11 or 12 - I must have missed
that somewhere. When you start adding in magical armor, I could see a character having up to
16 toughness or so. I'll make a guess here...you would have to roll one damage die twice to make
a wound...or simply roll two dice together? I don't know.

==========================================================================================

You know what - stop playing AHQ and just play HQ. Or, modify AHQ so it's not such a douche game. That
would be my best suggestion, I think. There is just too much going on - it is as complicated as AD&D 2nd ed.
There's just no reason for that.

[sephnroth]

thank you all for your replies, its all really good! and sorry if my first post seemed erratic, was naughtily typed whilst misusing a computer at work

The reason why I have to roll a 12 twice is there is one particular (dwarf) player who's weapon skill is so high any normal monster needs to roll a 12 to just get a hit in. Then the toughness is also maxed so even if I manage to get a hit it then takes more rolls of 12 to do damage and as he has about 7 fate points at the moment he'll just fate any damage away. It's not so bad if there is a boss monster or something that gets 6+ damage dice, at least I stand a chance then - but as atm we've only been fighting skaven and the way the game seems to make dungeons more "difficult" (pfft) is to add MORE mobs to the matrices rather than keep same amount of mobs but make them harder its just a cake walk for him.

We have slowly been implementing a lot of house rules so seeing your suggestions for more is good! The only treasure these guys ever really get is gold crowns or magic halberds (even the wizard has one -_-) so one of the next things I want to add is WHQ style treasure cards with some more interesting, BALANCED, items in. I really liked in the updated rules thread on this forum the difference classes and most importantly /the weapon restrictions/ so I might try to implement that.

For wizards i've already implemented WHQ style spells. I translated the bright wizard spell book into cards and have him roll a d8 for power each turn. this has sped the game up and made him feel alot more useful rather than fussing over components and its balanced well in the few play tests we did. The major problem to be honest is these WS 12 T 12 characters.

Finally whilst I have you all, i'm interested in trying WHQ sometime - if I proxied the cards and stuff do you think it could be played using the AHQ board tiles? it seems the only difference is in WHQ t junctions and corners are large multi tile pieces but in AHQ they are 2x2 small turns and connectors.

[torilen]

I've got a couple more (useful) comments when I get home to a real computer.

EDIT
Okay, I'm home and at a real computer, instead of typing on the touch screen of a smartphone at work.

First off - don't be afraid to go off-road from the matrix and add in monsters you feel might better suit
the combat needs of your characters. Don't go overboard and crazy, but you can always throw in bigger
and more powerful monsters that might not actually be on the matrix.

Second - your wizard using a magical halberd? If he can efficiently use a halberd in combat, he should
not have that many powerful spells...he would have had to spend his training time learning to fight
rather than learning spell casting. If he does have powerful spells AND can efficiently use a halberd
in combat, he should be fighting bigger and badder things than skaven.

Third - push your players to create "characters", not just heroes to use in a board game. If they do this,
then they'll have some idea in their head of what their character should look like, how they should act,
etc. If they do this, then they all will not be using this magical halberd that has become the bane of your
existence as a GM.

Fourth - I'll say again to use the random event table on page 36, I think? Use this...use any other reason to
get the players to use up their Fate points. Maybe create a system where they could restore these fate points
a little bit more easily...but there is no reason for a single hero to have 7 fate points at any one time. These
things should have been used up a little more...I would say if they hit 4 points, start thinking of ways to force
them to use one or two.

Fifth - you mentioned that there is little variety in treasure offered? If you and your players might be up to it,
move a little more toward actual role playing. Tell them that they have been offered a small mansion to live in
and furnish as they wish. Give them a map of this mansion, with a few rooms and/or areas for each of them to
outfit as they desire. Then you can start making treasures that will excite your players a lot more...and they
could be treasures that will create obstacles for them.
- Maybe they find a REALLY fancy chair in great condition that one might like in their room - they have to find a
....way to get it back to their home
- Maybe they find a tapestry or two to take home - but they need room in their packs, forcing them to drop some
.....other stuff.
- Maybe they find small mirrors and gold combs and gem studded objects - they won't want to sell them, instead
....keeping them in their home - this will cut the gold they can spend.

I'll read through the manual again over the weekend and try to offer some more specific suggestions for what I have
stated above. Hope that helps some, though.

[sephnroth]

Ah thanks for the suggestions! I was subscribed to the post and waiting email notification so didn't see it at first cuz of edit All that sounds really great. It never occurred to me to actually"create" their houses and let them fill it up, uptil now the hero house has just been a metaphor for "place you can store excess gold". Its good idea, tickles my imagination!

What I think I will definitely be doing is implementing the classes from the ahq updated rules on this forum. It will force players to really specialise and no more halberds for all! As it happens they are on the final quest for shattered amulet in prazgners (sp) tomb. I think i will let them finish it and then we'll sort of place a bookend and implement balancing rules and try again!

[Daedalus]

The Wizard is prohibited from using a Halberd. From the Magic section of AHQ p.22, under Weapons and Armor:

"Wizards cannot wear any sort of armour or carry any weapon other
than a dagger, with the exception of a magical Rune Sword.
Weapons and armour disrupt a Wizard's aura and make it
impossible for him to draw on the magical energies around him."

I'm not surprised you missed this. As you mentioned, the rules are bloated with fluff and sometimes hard to locate. Some of this information merited restatement in the equipment section.

You can bring the Heroes down a notch or two by modifying the Hazards. For instance, if a Hero fails any kind of leap then he needn't die, but instead sacrifice a piece of equipment. For armor, introduce a water Hazard. If failed, a Hero must discard his armor or drown.

Page 40 discusses alternative monsters. I think this is the best way to solve your problem:

"However, bear in mind that the Heroes get stronger with each quest
-this means you'll need more or more powerful monsters to give
them a suitable challenge. When you create your new tables after
completing a quest, add 1-2 points to each lline in the tables, so
now 3 Skaven will end up being replaced by 8 Goblins... or an
Ogre, or an Orc Warlord and 2 Orc Warriors."