Heroquest without a dungeon master?

[Leander]

Hi!

I used to play HQ with some friends in the early 90s. Now - many years later - I bought a Master Edition from Ebay, near-mint condition. I haven't played again yet...but there are two problems.

1) The game was more fun when we were younger as massive dice rolling was ok. We mostly play strategy games now with a reduced luck factor...and the basic HQ rules are too simple and luck-based. I already had a look at various custom rules in the German forum but they are a bit too complex. The gameplay shouldn't be like Descent...the rules should not be too complex (with dozens of RPG elements) but not too basic either. Any suggestions?

2) Now to the main problem...we play strategy games or family games with a strategic aspect...but it is always a competition and a battle to win the game. I just don't like the cooperative gameplay and the role of the dungeon master. The dungeon master should not defeat the heroes as they should make it from quest to quest...but it's just boring when he just tells the story and watches the heroes make the quests. Now I am looking for a way to...

a) either play HQ without a dungeon master: a dungeon is randomized...whatever...or some kind of Arkham Horror where all players play against the board.

b) implement a scoring system while using HQ's rules and the dungeon master. I'd like to have a strategic element what to do in the dungeon and all players (including the dungeon master) should compete for the most points....so the dungeon master has a chance to win a quest without having the heroes be stuck and bored because they failed.

It could be like that:

Quest 1: Barbarian 32 points, Elf 18 points, Wizard 29 points, Dwarf 21 points, dungeon master 28 points. -> Barbarian wins this quest.
Quest 2: Barbarian 20 points, Elf 24 points, Wizard .....
Quest 3: ....
And after some quests, the totals are added up.

Any ideas?

[Phoenix]

Insofar as points, etc. I would suggest counting body points (you'd be amazed at how many body points zargon can take away from the heroes over the course of the game) It may not be a bad idea to add some random factors via a table or die roll, such as:

a) Zargon gets to add X # of points.
b) the Heroes get to count double score for Goblins for 1d6 rounds
c) Zargon removes/adds X # of monsters or a certain type of monster
d) Zargon gets to double/triple points earned for 1d6 rounds.

All of these are just suggestions; I'm certain that variants could be made.

Even making a deck of cards sort of sounds neat. Sort of like a HeroQuest version of Battle Masters...

[Leander]

Thanks for your reply. I don't exactly understand what you mean...

a) Which points? What does he do?

Maybe we are talking about different points here.

I mean a certain number of points a player gets, such as "you get 2 points for killing a goblin, 3 for an orc" etc.
Zargon gets x points for every body points his monsters take from the heroes....

But a formula is needed that gives both Zargon and the heroes a fair chance.

[torilen]

Actually - on the old Aginn's Inn - and it might be found on ye olde inn also - there was a download for RandomQuest - it was
a heroquest card system designed for play without a DM or evil wizard - whatever you may call it.
I've looked through it before, and it looked pretty neat - you may want to try and find that,

[Leander]

Sounds cool...but Aginn's Inn is not online anymore. Do you know another link where I can download Randomquest?

[Phoenix]

Specifically, Body Points.

Orcs have one body point = 1 point
Chaos Warriors have 3 body points = 3 points; etc.

Although, I suppose it should be a formula; i.e. AttackDice x Body Points / Defend Dice or something

[drathe]

A formula may be difficult to create. You may need to have a separate formulae for all. One for Zargon one for the Heroes and one for the Wizard who is likely to kill fewer monsters than everyone else. In the first few Quests, things will also be unbalanced as the Barbarian has a stronger sword from the get-go and the Wizard will never have the attack the others do. It's an interesting concept though. If someone is able to figure out a good points system, I think it would be a fun alternative. Bonus loot at Quest's end could also be awarded to the Heroes based on a points system as well.

[Leander]

There could be a formula that calculates the chance the opponent is hit:

barbarian hits orc with a chance of x and gets y points.
barbarian hits chaos warrior with a chance of x and gets y points.
wizard hits orc with a chance of x and gets y points.
...
orc hits dwarf with a chance of x and Zargon gets y points.

The higher the chance to hit, the lower the points scored. A hit does not mean that the monster is killed...it only means that the target loses one (or more) body points.

What about this?

Points per hit = 100 - chance to hit

If the chance to hit is 22% and you are successful you get 78 points. If the chance to hit is 30%, you get 70 points.
Or should the points for a monster always be the same? But the barbarian would be the strongest char then.

[drathe]

I kinda like that formula. I would like to hear results of it being tested during a game. I'd test them myself, but I have no games coming up in the near future to test. A game need not be played just to test. If someone is playing a Quest they could just tally the results without playing to win by points and then see how the results fair. In fact, if I have some time in the next week or two, I can just sit down and play a game on my own with all Heroes and Zargon, solo-like.

[Phoenix]

I can just sit down and play a game on my own with all Heroes and Zargon, solo-like.

...which is kind of the point of the thread, now isn't it...