Ye Olde Inn

The following is a houserule similar to the illumination discussion http://forum.yeoldeinn.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=1387&hilit=illumination but not limited to one quest or specific characters. After completing the game system we thought the game needed a little more suspense and unexpected events. Walking through the dungeon had too often been quite predictable and thus felt not dangerous and frightening enough.

We therefore chose to leave the heroes with no light but the faint glow of a torch:

1) The rooms are illuminated but all corridors are shrouded in darkness.

2) Every hero is equipped with a torch which lights up the 8 adjacent squares as well as the 12 squares in the horizontal and vertical extension of the adjacent squares (similar to the city production radius in Sid Meier's Civilization).

3) Line of sight does apply (walls, corners and obstacles affect the dispersion of the light).

4) The doors, obstacles and monsters are placed in the corridors when the light of a torch has reached them.

5) The monsters are allowed to retreat into the darkness (and to move unseen in the darkness). Zargon keeps track of their position (similar to chess notation).

6) Searching for traps and secret doors is only effective inside the light cone.

7) When a monster has retreated into darkness the heroes are allowed to use a ranged attack into the same direction/ corridor (f.i. crossbow).

8) The heroes are allowed to combine the light cones of their torches (by standing close to eachother) to light up a larger part of the dungeon at once.


We have only played one quest with the new rules so far but I can say the suspense was very high. The heroes lost a champion and barely made it to the exit door.

I had great fun playtesting that quest pack. I think any illumination rule is a great addition to the game, especially if the Heroes are brave/stupid/unlucky enough to explore in the dark.

You should definitely include scenario's where the Heroes torches can go out

Nice. I've been meaning to add darkness to my rules with Dwarvens being able to see further but hadn't worked out the best way to do it.

You could make some rooms dark and some not to add a bit of variation. Maybe even do it randomly. Can your monsters see in the dark? That could be nasty if they can. Maybe goblins should be able to at least. That would make them a bit more dangerous.

I like the idea of adding darkness a lot - thanks for bringing the subject to light again (pun intended).

Guybrush Threepwood wrote:but not limited to one quest or specific characters.

Well, that's not really an issue. It's not unreasonable the inhabintants of a dungeon use walltorches or candles themselves. So you can just assume that the first few quests take place in dungeons that are lit and where darknes rules do not apply. Then, after some time (depending on your group) you will feel the players need new sources of suspension, and introduce "dark" dungeons, eventually making making them the norm. By the time new players will also have grasped the basic rules and are ready to learn the "darknes rules".

Guybrush Threepwood wrote:1) The rooms are illuminated but all corridors are shrouded in darkness.

Not necessarily. I would make that "The rooms are completely illuminated if they contain a light source (like a heroe with a torch), but in the corridors, because of their length, rules for light distribution apply".
Rules 2 to 8 i like very much, they really flesh out the concept of darkness and light sources.
I would however add a rule that a torch cannot be used with a two-handed weapon or a shield.

Guybrush Threepwood wrote:5) The monsters are allowed to retreat into the darkness (and to move unseen in the darkness). Zargon keeps track of their position (similar to chess notation).

That's where my problems start. I like the idea of the monsters moving around unseen, but in a relaistic manner. That's essential for the suspension - they are not just renadom encounters, but the players know they "are there somewhere". But finding a simple(!) method for the GM to keep track of their whereabouts is the main problem of all the "darknes" approaches. The "chess notation" method, I fear, is all but simple.

The Road Warrior wrote:You should definitely include scenario's where the Heroes torches can go out

Thanks for the input! We didn't include a purchasable torch (with larger or even normal visibility) because then every hero would just simply buy enough torches to override the darkness rule. But torches going out on some occasions.. that's a nice idea. How many light should there be left without a torch?

Gold Bearer wrote:..Dwarvens being able to see further

Yes, nice one! I mean the "trap disarming skill" is a little underpowered compared to the other heroes special skills, isn't it?

Gold Bearer wrote:Can your monsters see in the dark?

You mean get activated at normal "line of sight"-contact while the heroes are not informed yet (due to darkness rule)?

Big Bene wrote:The rooms are completely illuminated if they contain a light source (like a heroe with a torch)

That's what we meant, sorry, illuminated when there's a hero inside.

How could combat/line of sight questions be handled in a dark room (f.i. when the torch went out)?

Big Bene wrote:I would however add a rule that a torch cannot be used with a two-handed weapon or a shield.

You're right. I'll have to think about that. We left this one out the first time, because we already played a tougher version of the monster chart..

Big Bene wrote:But finding a simple(!) method for the GM to keep track of their whereabouts is the main problem of all the "darknes" approaches.

Actually I think it's not that difficult: By "chess notation" I meant to once code every square on the board on a small scale paper copy of the gameboard. This way Zargon/Morcar only has to write down a number/code at the end of his turn for all the monsters (usually not more than one or two) which are not visible at the moment:

E12

B4

etc.

Guybrush Threepwood wrote:

Gold Bearer wrote:Can your monsters see in the dark?

You mean get activated at normal "line of sight"-contact while the heroes are not informed yet (due to darkness rule)?

Exactly. One for night goblins and skavin.

Big Bene wrote:I would however add a rule that a torch cannot be used with a two-handed weapon or a shield.

Clearly a two-handed weapon or using two weapons at a time wouldn't permit a torch as well but surely a torch and shield would be fine?

At the moment, my torch rule only affects searching. I do like the idea of a dungeon being revealed based on torch light but for the moment I've decided to keep things simple. What it does include is a combat die test every turn it's used where a black shield reduces it's life. The fifth time a black shield is rolled, it's extinguished.

Gold Bearer wrote:Can your monsters see in the dark?

I'd say yes, for two reasons -
First, in terms of in-game realism; as long as the heroes carry the light sources or stay in contact with friends that do so (which will be the case most often), everybody in the dark will definitely see them, more prominentely even than under "normal" conditions.
Second, and most important in terms of real world practicability: the GM knows the whereabouts of both monsters and heroes and making the mosters act as if they could not see the heroes (or each other) would mean a great deal of thinking agaist his own interests.
It's also not illogical that most monsters have a better night vision than heroes and that monsters that live in a dungeon where the corridors are left dark are used to this condition.

Guybrush Threepwood wrote:How could combat/line of sight questions be handled in a dark room (f.i. when the torch went out)?

Or when the heore does not have one because he carries a two handed weapon, and the torch-bearer has left the room...
Line of sight should be handled the same way as shooting/spellcasting into the dark part of a corridor. Combat? Dunno. Do you think there should be special rules at all? You could just assume that every participant is hindered in the same way. Of course it's up to you to get as complex as you want.
Searching should be restricted, however, expecially there should be a chance to acidentally spring a trap.

Redav wrote:surely a torch and shield would be fine?

In reality, a shield requires some effort and dexterity to handle and a person would normally drop a torch hold in the same hand at start of a meele combat, or, more probable, leave it to the companions who carry only a single weapon anyway. Game-wise, in the original rules, a shield always counts as a second weapon, "using up" one hand to hold.

I agree, monster movement should be completely normal for Zargon/Morcar besides having to use the codes (instead of the miniature on the board) when there is no torchlight on the relevant square. Monsters are allowed to retreat and move unseen in the darkness.

The activation of the monsters though is triggered by the light of the torch arriving on a monster square..

Big Bene wrote:It's also not illogical that most monsters have a better night vision than heroes and that monsters that live in a dungeon where the corridors are left dark are used to this condition.

..with the exception of the goblins which have the special ability to get activated by normal line of sight contact (and therefore to move before the heroes can see them). This special ability for the goblins and other special abilities for the rest of the monsters are written down in my "Enhanced Monster Chart" which results from the inspiration in Beirens thread:

http://forum.yeoldeinn.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=2351

Big Bene wrote:Searching should be restricted, however, expecially there should be a chance to acidentally spring a trap.

Searching is according to normal rules but restricted to illuminated squares. Therefore traps can be sprung like normal.