Ye Olde Inn

I have a question: if we assign a point value to every trait a hero can have, how many points should each trait be worth? The values should be based on the degree of benefit the trait provides in play.

We can call the points ‘character points’ (cp). They would be a tool to estimate the effectiveness of any new heroes we create.

Here is a possible point breakdown I have been considering:

1 body point = 2 cp
+1 die for melee attacks = 2 cp
+1 die for ranged attacks = 2 cp
+1 defense die = 2 cp
1 mind point = 1 cp (This is assuming the GM makes a point to regularly hit the heroes with spells that are resisted with MP. Otherwise, I think MP would be worth even less.)
Disarm = 1 cp (Assuming the GM regularly creates situations where this is useful.)
1 spell group = 4 cp (Alternately, it could be 1 cp per spell.)
Edit: I meant to write this: 1 spell group = 2 cp (Alternately, it could be 1/2 cp per spell.)

Where would you set the point values?

I've actually done exactly this - in a somewhat different manner than you have, but
exact same idea and theory.

You can find it here...scroll down on the second page to the download from Feb. 15, 2013.
viewtopic.php?f=143&t=1159&start=10


The PDF includes my version of what you have presented here...point values to determine
character power, as I term it. I also include the possibility for heroes gaining power through
their adventures...able to choose to increase something every 3 quests.

torilen wrote:I've actually done exactly this - in a somewhat different manner than you have, but
exact same idea and theory.

You can find it here...scroll down on the second page to the download from Feb. 15, 2013.
viewtopic.php?f=143&t=1159&start=10


The PDF includes my version of what you have presented here...point values to determine
character power, as I term it. I also include the possibility for heroes gaining power through
their adventures...able to choose to increase something every 3 quests.

Thanks for the link. I missed that one when I was Googling on this. Here is your breakdown, for comparison:

torilen wrote:+1 per body point
+1 per attack die
+1 per defense die
+1 per spell (for casters)
+2 for bonus abilities (dwarf's trap ability)
+2 for use of all weapons and armor; +1 if there is a minor restriction; +0 if totally restricted.
(optional +1 per mind point, as these do come into play occasionally)

Interesting. There are some significant differences here. You rated Disarm at twice the value of a body point, and a single spell as the same value as a body point. So your assessment of the value of those abilities is higher than my first estimate.

Well, the +2 for the disarm...that is for any special abilities (aside from spell casting). And this could be
higher, is the special ability is more useful or more powerful. For example...I have created a priest
character that can turn undead...that gets a +3 or +4, really.

As far as spells being equal to body points - I think my main reasoning behind that was
1 - to make it simple - 1 point for 1 spell
2 - it seemed to make sense, since heroes are, for the most part, the only ones with spells...this will
.....increase their power quite a bit anyhow
3 - most spells offer 1-2 points of damage, so it really is the equivalent of an extra AD, at least for a while
.....or, they only offer +1 or so extra AD or DD at times. The healing spells are a little more powerful, but
.....usable only once per quest, and usually only on one target...so it equals out there.

Realize...I haven't had a lot of chance to playtest, except what I do on my own here and there. I put a lot of
thought into to, but that is all, for the most part. I've run a few heroes against a monster or two on their own
a couple of times...nothing really in depth, though.

Here's a version of "Character points" presented by me on Oldscratch:
http://oldscratch.smackwell.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1340777356

torilen wrote:Realize...I haven't had a lot of chance to playtest, except what I do on my own here and there. I put a lot of
thought into to, but that is all, for the most part. I've run a few heroes against a monster or two on their own
a couple of times...nothing really in depth, though.

Yeah, I don't get to play games as much as I'd like, either. My ideas have yet to be playtested at all.

knightkrawler wrote:Here's a version of "Character points" presented by me on Oldscratch:
http://oldscratch.smackwell.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1340777356

Thanks for the link.

It seems the more systems for hero creation I see, the less clear it is how to balance the traits. In your rules, a spell is worth the same as a body point, like in Torilen's. But in Malcadon's rules, in the thread you linked to, a spell is worth only a third as much as a point of body. There are other disagreements between the systems as well.

And one thing I see over and over, is that people either charge nothing for mind points (which is clearly not right, since they can be important when facing spellcasters), or they make them the same price as body points (also not right, since body points help you more overall). If there have been any good discussions on the relative value of BP and MP, I've missed them.

Perhaps I'm just overthinking this. I'm used to GURPS (a roleplaying game), which is a true work of art in game design. Character traits all have point values, and the point costs are finely tuned to ensure balance. The typical character is worth 150 points, and some traits have such a small impact on play that they cost only a single point. Other traits might cost 50 points or more. And the more I study the game, the more impressed I am at the brilliance of the designers. It is the most well-thought-out rpg system ever published. And well-balanced point costs are crucial to it.

But HeroQuest is another animal entirely. I get the sense that balance isn't really that much of an issue with the fans. Perhaps the unspoken rule is simply, "Don't sweat it." The system was never that finely calibrated to start with. So house rules don't need to be either.

This thread was mainly concerned with monster points, but there was info for character points as well. Mind Points were addressed.

Daedalus wrote:This thread was mainly concerned with monster points, but there was info for character points as well. Mind Points were addressed.

Thanks a bunch for the link! I didn't stop to read that thread all the way through the first time I saw it, since I wasn't looking for advice on balancing quests. But there is some very interesting material there. I'll need to spend some time digesting it.