Having a dragon in HQ?

[Anderas]

I love the 13 profile : 13 attack, 13 defense, 13 Body Points. Be aware that it will be the only monster in the entire quest.

[Thor-in]

Has anyone actually used a Dragon yet?

I got this crazy idea for a Dragon Orb Quest Pack (thanks to Dragon Lance) and I've been working on creating "special" monsters for it and naturally if you have a Dragon Orb you need a Dragon.

Since Dragon Lance has multiple types for Dragons, I wanted to keep it sorta simple on how many I have and what they can control or do.

Example:
A Skeleton or Ghost Dragon can control and summon the undead.
A Green Dragon can control and summon green-skins.
Extra.

I was also thinking of throwing in "special" weapons the hero's need to find to be able to defeat each type of dragon. Kind of like Gauntlet Dark Legacy if anyone has ever played that game.

Example:
To defeat the Green Dragon, you need to find the say the runic axe that is somewhere in the dungeon of the Red Dragon. (Note this is not set in stone, just a draft idea)

Let's not forget about a possible new monster of a "Dragon High Lord", a minion of Chaos that can control the Dragons because they have what....the Dragon Orb.

[Kurgan]

We used one. I was playing a hero and a family member was GMing a variation of Grin's Crag I think it was (the one where you finish the stone map).

I created a card after the fact because I thought it was so cool. Used a rubber mini from a kid's "fantasy creatures tube" I bought on amazon because it was the right size (the Dragonstrike "Dark Fyre" mini would work too).

More info on our Dragon here (pics and stats)

Basically the Heroes were like "how do we kill this thing?" because at the time we didn't know its body points. We won by using an Artifact (a book with a black hole inside it), trapping the beast. Basically it was a big boss monster... high body points and a few spells.

[iKarith]

The thing I wonder about for a big monster is how does it work on the game board? Most corridors are too narrow for a "large" monster and bigger than that just don't work. Dark Fyre was "large" (2x2) wasn't it?

How did you handle it? Many BP, a few spells, and the possibility of up to 8 adjacent heroes attacking at once (but careful because something that big is likely to hit pretty hard!)

[whitebeard]

The thing I wonder about for a big monster is how does it work on the game board? Most corridors are too narrow for a "large" monster and bigger than that just don't work. Dark Fyre was "large" (2x2) wasn't it?

How did you handle it? Many BP, a few spells, and the possibility of up to 8 adjacent heroes attacking at once (but careful because something that big is likely to hit pretty hard!)

Nothing wrong with having doors too small for a dragon to use.
Have a look at "The Eastmoor Keep Incident" http://forum.yeoldeinn.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=3223&start=20#p81595 for playing a 3x2 dragon... the stats and powers of the dragon might be in the DungeonsDark intro materials.

[Pancho]

In my HQ chronology I have three adventures with Dragons. The first is Whitebeard’s the Eastmoor Keep Incident, which is too interesting not to include really.

The second is the series of quests imported over to HQ from Dragonstrike, featuring the dragon Darkfyre.

The third is Morcar’s Pet, which features an even more dangerous Dragon, given that it’s part of the final quest pack the Heroes will ever face. I’m sorry that I don’t have a link for it, but in a nutshell that quest uses the large 8x7 mineshaft tile that featured in the Halls of Durrag Dol. Each of the double wide corridors that come off this tile are accessed via double doors, and the dragon is hiding behind one of them*. The wide corridors also have further double doors leading to a couple of rooms where the dragon sleeps and keeps its treasure. Basically, I concur with Whitebeard that the dragon doesn’t have to access the whole map. He can get in and out of the dungeon via the top of the mineshaft, and all of the fighting can take place on the ledges around the shaft (ranged) and within the double corridors and adjacent rooms.


*In this final quest pack, which features up to 14 Heroes!, the players don’t know they’re about to face a dragon in one of the quests. The first character trying to open one of the double doors leading out of the mineshaft triggers a special trap whereby the dragon smashes through the doors, throwing that character down into the shaft. The beast can hover over the pit breathing fire and whatnot. If the party wins, they can descend down the pit (after plundering the treasure hoard of course) to look for their fallen comrade in the next quest.

[Pancho]

I just remembered that I’ve also got Ethica’s excellent quest pack The Jorgunmander which also features a dragon or dragon-like creature, so I’m actually using four.

All four quests are very different, but it goes to show that there are a number of different ways to get a dragon into Heroquest without breaking the game.

[Kurgan]

Dark Fyre from Dragonstrike is only a "two square" monster, and in my humble opinion, not unrealistic to the HQ scale at all. I have always felt that giant, dinosaur sized dragons have no place in Hero Quest games for the simple fact that they're ridiculous. Yes, you could create one, perhaps represented by tiles, like in the first novelization, but it wouldn't be a regular enemy you would realistically fight, more like a piece of the background... a special effect to accompany a puzzle. Darkfyre is a boss that shows up if you take too long to complete the quest (several arcade video games of the era featured similar screen killer "bosses"). if I recall correctly he's powerful, but not god-like against a group of heroes.

In the type of medieval art and literature I'm familiar with its most common to find dragons that are horse sized (or smaller!). Other types of dragons exist, sure, but they even take on a serpentine appearance and the idea of a big snake slithering through a man-sized doorway isn't that far fetched, while a godzilla sized behemoth obviously would.

I have the above Dragonstrike figure and if you compare its base, it is equivalent to two of the Ogres (ATOH or EQP, take your pick) bases lined up. These Ogre bases are just slightly wider than the bases used by the game system figures on the sides. The game can already accommodate multi-square monsters such as the Frozen Horror, and the Giant Wolves whose leaping bodies extend far out from their base and are about three squares long (but have only a two square base).

You may point out that this particular dragon has big fancy wings that extend out a little, but the same can be said of the default Gargoyle, and also of the aforementioned Giant Wolves (which would take up 3 squares if you factor in the full model).

Strictly for purposes of attack and movement, only the actual base matters and if it extends partly into one square by a mm or two, doesn't really matter much unless you're trying to pack a tiny room. In that case do what I did and print your own 1 inch square board.

We all know the doors can't accommodate these monsters but they can barely accommodate regular figures (and not always because they have their arms outstretched with big weapons sticking up). The doors are symbolic of passage, and somehow everyone is able to squeeze through them, period.

[whitebeard]

Dark Fyre from Dragonstrike is only a "two square" monster, and in my humble opinion, not unrealistic to the HQ scale at all. I have always felt that giant, dinosaur sized dragons have no place in Hero Quest games for the simple fact that they're ridiculous. Yes, you could create one, perhaps represented by tiles, like in the first novelization, but it wouldn't be a regular enemy you would realistically fight, more like a piece of the background... a special effect to accompany a puzzle. Darkfyre is a boss that shows up if you take too long to complete the quest (several arcade video games of the era featured similar screen killer "bosses"). if I recall correctly he's powerful, but not god-like against a group of heroes.

In the type of medieval art and literature I'm familiar with its most common to find dragons that are horse sized (or smaller!). Other types of dragons exist, sure, but they even take on a serpentine appearance and the idea of a big snake slithering through a man-sized doorway isn't that far fetched, while a godzilla sized behemoth obviously would.

I have the above Dragonstrike figure and if you compare its base, it is equivalent to two of the Ogres (ATOH or EQP, take your pick) bases lined up. These Ogre bases are just slightly wider than the bases used by the game system figures on the sides. The game can already accommodate multi-square monsters such as the Frozen Horror, and the Giant Wolves whose leaping bodies extend far out from their base and are about three squares long (but have only a two square base).

You may point out that this particular dragon has big fancy wings that extend out a little, but the same can be said of the default Gargoyle, and also of the aforementioned Giant Wolves (which would take up 3 squares if you factor in the full model).

Strictly for purposes of attack and movement, only the actual base matters and if it extends partly into one square by a mm or two, doesn't really matter much unless you're trying to pack a tiny room. In that case do what I did and print your own 1 inch square board.

We all know the doors can't accommodate these monsters but they can barely accommodate regular figures (and not always because they have their arms outstretched with big weapons sticking up). The doors are symbolic of passage, and somehow everyone is able to squeeze through them, period.

HQ is all about one-time / per quest adjustments to the rules to make simple and exciting adventures. If you constrain yourself to "The doors are symbolic of passage, and somehow everyone is able to squeeze through them, period." then you are missing all kinds of potential for cool new adventures. Examine all of your strongest assumptions about the rules and game pieces, pick one, and create a justification to break it for one quest. Such quests rival the original base set.

The 1" squares are roughly 5 feet x 5 feet at 28mm and for a hero represents the area you do not want to stand inside while they are swinging a weapon. A dragon at 2x3 is more like elephant size for the main body with the addition of long neck/tail and wings. This is crushingly huge in a small space and incredibly dangerous, but not something which cannot be killed by swords and a bit of strategy / luck.

[cornixt]

There could always be a room with a opening above - there has to be some kind of ventilation (there is already an established fireplace) and no reason it couldn't be big enough for a dragon to fit through.

I've used the dragon model for Shimmergloom from the Legend of Drizzt board game, which fits on 2x2 squares. Lots of other good HQ suitable miniatures in that set too. It's not so large that it would be undefeatable. I tend to think of dragons behaving like raptors (birds) in that they will flee when it becomes obvious that they might get even slightly injured.