Ye Olde Inn

Ninja

Attack: 2 Defence: 2 Body: 7 Mind:3

Starting Weapon: Shortsword
Starting Armor: Is allowed none
Movement: 2 red dice

The Ninja may dual-wield weapons, when dual wielding you may attack twice either on the same monster or two different monsters, but you cannot move before the second attack or it is canceled and you may not double attack that turn.

Also when dual-wielding the Ninja gets +1 to defense.

The ninja is unseen by monsters unless the ninja is in their line of sight when he either opens a door or attacks.

When the Ninja attacks a monster while unseen the defending monster loses 1 combat dice for that roll of their defending dice.

The Ninja may only equip daggers and the shortsword.

Armor, any other weapons, and the tool kit may not be equipped by the ninja. ( I don't know about other 'home made' equipment but these are the original allowed items)

If an artifact says it is anything but a dagger or a shortsword it is not allowed to be used by the Ninja.

Please submit your thoughts/ideas on this character, thank you. (by the way why are all of the smilies oval shaped?)

Justin Ninja wrote:Ninja

Attack: 2 Defence: 2 Body: 7 Mind:3

Starting Weapon: Shortsword
Starting Armor: Is allowed none
Movement: 2 red dice

The Ninja may dual-wield weapons, when dual wielding you may attack twice either on the same monster or two different monsters, but you cannot move before the second attack or it is canceled and you may not double attack that turn.

Is dual-wield meant to be used with the multiple-attacks rules clarification from the Barbarian Quest Pack? If so, then that means dual-wield could provide a 3 combat dice attack against a single monster. (If you ignore the rule clarification, you also ignore a lot of HeroQuest players.) Also, how would dual-wield combine with an artifact like Orc's Bane which also provides two attacks?

Justin Ninja wrote:Also when dual-wielding the Ninja gets +1 to defense.

The ninja would always dual-wield, so this amounts to a bonus that could only be taken away like armor. Basically, it's armor of a different sort.

Justin Ninja wrote:The ninja is unseen by monsters unless the ninja is in their line of sight when he either opens a door or attacks.

Cool ninja theme. If it playtests as unbalanced, consider requiring a limitation such as adjacency to furniture/walls. Also, what happens if a Ninja who is followed by another Hero in a 1 square corridor is targeted by a ranged attack? Does the attack bypass the Ninja who otherwise qualifies for the line of sight rule? What happens if the same Ninja and following Hero in the same corridor are met with a melee attack? Seems like the Nija must be attacked anyway. Finally, does a Ninja become seen if he triggers a trap?

Justin Ninja wrote:When the Ninja attacks a monster while unseen the defending monster loses 1 combat dice for that roll of their defending dice.

Not sure if this is necessary. The basic unseen rule captures the Ninja flavor with less. Your mileage may vary.

Justin Ninja wrote:The Ninja may only equip daggers and the shortsword.

Armor, any other weapons, and the tool kit may not be equipped by the ninja. ( I don't know about other 'home made' equipment but these are the original allowed items)

If an artifact says it is anything but a dagger or a shortsword it is not allowed to be used by the Ninja.

I feel the armor and weapon restrictions are sufficient, as this precedent already exists with the Wizard. I don't think it's necessary to restrict the tool kit, as the goal should be to add less special rules. You should word the artifact restriction to read: If a weapon or armor artifact says it is anything but a dagger or a shortsword it is not allowed to be used by the Ninja.

Overall, I think the Ninja starts out too strong. Dual-wield allows 3 combat dice with the potential to kill 2 monsters in a single turn. That's better than the Barbarian, who is the standard of martial power. The Ninja also effectively starts out with 3 defend dice, which again outstrips all the official Heroes. What is the cost? A weapon, armor (and tool kit) restriction that won't come into play until later as an equalizer. What is the Ninja to do with all the gold coins?

At higher levels, I think the Ninja is too weak. Unless you provide special Ninja artifact cards, the exclusion of any protective armor is going to make him a paper tiger. However, you are using a game system that I'm unfamiliar with. Perhaps monsters limited to only 1 Body Point is enough to cure this deficiency. Against monsters with multiple Body Points from the North American game system, the Ninja will suffer more at higher levels. The unseen ability won't be as effective when the Ninja needs to stay in the fight, and he'll go down fast.

As a fix, I'd suggest doing away with the dual-wield +1 defend die, but allow armor usable by the Wizard. In that case, I'd change the Wizard's Cloak to an additional artifact called Ninja's Garb or some such nonsense. Bracers should also be allowed to be found or purchased.

Justin Ninja wrote:Please submit your thoughts/ideas on this character, thank you. (by the way why are all of the smilies oval shaped?)

(My screen stretches everything into oval shapes, because it's extra-wide and my wife wants to see everything filling the screen. At least I can adjust the aspect ratio when needed.)

Daedalus wrote:I think the Ninja starts out too strong.

He only begins with the Shortsword, which is the same as the Dwarf and Elf. That's two combat dice. However, it doesn't take much to purchase a dagger after the first quest and boost him up to three, but if the Dwarf or Elf are treasure happy, they can easily gather enough gold to upgrade as well.

Personally, I'd start the Ninja out with two daggers instead of a Shortsword. This allows him to use his ability right away, but not do enough damage to take down most enemies on his own.

Justin Ninja wrote:If an artifact says it is anything but a Dagger or a Shortsword it is not allowed to be used by the Ninja.

I would simply state "the Ninja may only use Daggers, Shortswords and special Ninja equipment". This covers any weapon and Artifact at once.

Justin Ninja wrote:the tool kit may not be equipped by the ninja.

I too believe the Ninja should be allowed to use a toolkit.

Daedalus wrote:As a fix, I'd suggest doing away with the dual-wield +1 defend die, but allow armor usable by the Wizard. In that case, I'd change the Wizard's Cloak to an additional artifact called Ninja's Garb or some such nonsense. Bracers should also be allowed to be found or purchased.

I'd also toss the +1 defend when dual-wielding in favour of Bracers, Ninja Garb and weapons/armour marked for use only by the Wizard. This follows the same formula for additional defence as with other Heroes.

Personally, I'd make his Body: 6 and Mind: 4. Ninja's rely on their skill and cunning more than strength.

Justin Ninja wrote:(by the way why are all of the smilies oval shaped?)

They aren't perfect circles, more like more like stubby, inverted eggs.

So what are these, barbarian dual-wielding rules? Please explain this so I can change my character.

There are no official dual-wielding rules. We're just providing constructive feedback based on how each of us feel balances the Ninja character in comparison to the simplicity of HeroQuest's rules and the other Heroes. You don't have to change your character at all if you don't want to. Your game, your rules.

Daedalus refers to the Barbarian questpack = Frozen Horror, there is a rule clarificationi in there for multiple attacks. It was meant for two attacks with one weapon (like with the orc bane), but could be also used for two weapons with one attack each.

drathe wrote:

Daedalus wrote:I think the Ninja starts out too strong.

He only begins with the Shortsword, which is the same as the Dwarf and Elf. That's two combat dice. However, it doesn't take much to purchase a dagger after the first quest and boost him up to three, but if the Dwarf or Elf are treasure happy, they can easily gather enough gold to upgrade as well.

Personally, I'd start the Ninja out with two daggers instead of a Shortsword. This allows him to use his ability right away, but not do enough damage to take down most enemies on his own.

Like it. Missed the starting shortsword thing.

drathe wrote:

Justin Ninja wrote:If an artifact says it is anything but a Dagger or a Shortsword it is not allowed to be used by the Ninja.

I would simply state "the Ninja may only use Daggers, Shortswords and special Ninja equipment". This covers any weapon and Artifact at once.

Seconded.

Your Ninja Hero was my first criticism effort, so it may have come off a bit blunt. I forgot to mention you have some solid ideas there. Like drathe said, play it as you see best, and I hope what I offered was useful.

Like the ninja idea.

My on Dual-wielding
1)It can be done only with daggers and short swords.
2)You have to decided which enemies to attack with each weapon before rolling any attack dice.
3)If you decided to attack just one monster with both weapons treat it as 1 big attack that the monster only gets 1 defense roll against.
4)If you use the Orc's Bane when dual-wielding then you only get a bonus attack with the Orc's Bane, not both weapons.

My on the Item restrictions
1) The Tool-Kit restriction is a bad idea.
2) The armor restriction is a good idea.
3) The ninja should be able to use broadswords and long swords, just not dual-wield with them. (might be too weird to have different restrictions, so possibly just leave it as is.)

My on the special abilities
Make them into skill cards that the ninja can use a number of times per quest.
Then the cards could be something like;
Vanish: The ninja cannot be seen by monsters until he does anything other than move. If a monster tries to move through the space the ninja is in the ninja can be seen by monsters again but the monsters turn is ended. If a range attack passes through the space of a vanished ninja (friendly or hostile fire) roll a combat die, on a black shield resolve the combat as if the ninja was the target of the attack and end the ninja can be seen again. This skill card cannot be used if the ninja can see any monsters.
Secret Strike: The ninja can make a single strike against a foe who isn't paying complete attention to him. If the ninja attacks a monster while vanished or if the monster is adjacent to another Hero the ninja can attack that monster with a single weapon strike with a +1 attack die bonus to his roll. (The ninja cannot use dual-wielding with this skill card.)
Defensive Measures: The ninja cannot attack the turn that he plays this skill card. Until the end of Zargon's next turn the ninja rolls 1 additional defense die.

Make 3 copies of each card and allow the ninja to take 5 total cards into the quest with him. His choice of cards.
(I used this Idea with my thief (which hasn't made it onto this site yet.) but it worked good in the couple of rounds that he was played. When he could use all of his abilities all the time he was very op.

-SadKitchen

My thief had a peak card that allowed him to peak around corner or into room without activating monsters. Kinda Ninja style. You could have a lot of fun with ninja combat cards.

great. now I want a ninja miniature
the cards are a great idea!