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Monk player problem

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Re: Monk player problem

Postby Zull Rogar » Tuesday December 1st, 2020 6:59am

What I meant is that the monk would have two defensive moves, the first would be dodge, if he was unable to defend himself, then the second defense itself to try to minimize the damage.
And that's what Devane said the first would be the monk's skill.
The ability can be used always or a number of times by searching as Cynthia suggested.

Just synthesizing. :)
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Re: Monk player problem

Postby Kurgan » Tuesday December 1st, 2020 8:31am

Maybe this opens a can of worms, but why does he have to be a Master Monk? Maybe he starts out as some kind of novice, or "white belt" or whatever? You could think of some motivation and mission that unfolds over several quests, to replace the "save up gold to buy super armor and big weapon" motivation of the other Heroes.


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Re: Monk player problem

Postby Davane » Tuesday December 1st, 2020 10:14am

There's also the NWN approach to character building. In NWN, there were chests scripted to provide key Monk items and artifacts if the player was a Monk, simply because they can be so restricted on the equipment they can use.

Basically put, you can bundle the Monk character with a special Monk quest pack designed around the story of a novice monk becoming a master. It's a good way to expand upon the lore of the Monk, and give the player motivation to adventure, that doesn't necessarily need to be based on gold.

I would also point out that the gold as experience mechanic was used to great effect in WHQ, with the Trollslayer. By separating what the Monk can carry and spend in terms of Treasure with experience needed to advance, you can incorporate character growth as something other than pure wealth.

You could even combine these two concepts, creating a Quest pack where a novice becomes a master Monk by restoring and promoting their school, challenging rivals, and being lawful guardians. You could even take a route like the Japanese Game System, and create an entirely new kingdom/realm of the East (Nippon and/or Cathay) for heroes to explore, at the simple prompting of Mentor...
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Re: Monk player problem

Postby Josh » Wednesday December 2nd, 2020 8:40pm

Using NorthAmerican rules.

Counter Attack is perfect.
cynthialee wrote:For the Monk it is perfect and I think when ever the enemy rolls a Black Shield when they attack the Monk have opened themselves up to attack by the Monk equal amount of dice as Black Shields that were rolled in the monsters attack.


Its been a long time & was unaware the latter additions required weapons/armor stronger than a 4Att/5,6Def (standard weapons/armor of the game). i am cool with the Monk ending up with a 4Att & maybe 4Def, but you're thinking more?
Azure wrote:Also, keep in mind Monks know how to use combat staves (short, medium, long) and they might be granted the use of some bracers as well. With a good staff, the Monk could maybe reach 5 Attack Dice.

Oftkilted wrote:At a “high end” (IE past the base game, Kellar’s keep and RotWL) a defense under 5 or 6 will end up with them dying. (Or you’ll need a source of healing.) And probably be an unhappy experience for the player. And a max of 3 attack is also really low.



These are all amazing and will use them. I want to toy with idea of lowering the Monks Att & Defense dice & instead give him Body7 Mind4. Not sure yet though. Mine will be an alternate Dwarf "Heavy" player.
Azure wrote:- I would give the Monk an additional attack die if they ran (rolled a 7 or more) to get to the enemy (imagining a jump kick)
- I would say the enemy gets pushed back 2 squares if they fail to defend at all (like, zero black shields)
- The enemy gets pushed back 1 square if the Monk scores 2 skulls in any circumstance.
- Can pass through squares in diagonal during combat only (the diagonal spaces unoccupied by enemies)
- I would say 3 combat dice for defense, because he is very agile and knows how to block hits.
- Absolutely no armor maybe except bracers.
- I would say 4 combat dice for defense against the ranged attacks (arrows, slings, etc)


This is all completely bad ass &must be fleshed out. Torilen didn't you or somebody already put a list together about this? I swear I've seen it and it rocked.

torilen wrote:Create a set of "spell" cards for the monk. Base the martial arts moves/katas/maneuvers/etc. on
real moves. Perhaps one set of three could focus on only pressure points. Perhaps another set of
three could focus on only defense or offense - or perhaps you could split it into hand movements
and foot movements. Have a fourth set focus on the meditation aspect - gathering internal energies
to make a better attack or defense, run faster, get rid of poison. The monk would choose three sets,
just like the wizard.


This makes me change my mind about having him roll less dice while succedding Defense with BlacknWhiteShield. I'm ok with wizards cloak & Bracer or your options to keep with game consistency.
Kurgan wrote:
High defense explained by:

Martial Arts. He can block or dodge his opponent's strikes with high agility.

Maybe he uses his cloak to catch his opponent's blade or wave in their face to cause their strike to miss. Maybe he has a staff that he is particularly skilled with.

He might wear some kind of holy relic that gives him extra protection.

Maybe he blinds the enemy with holy light or burns incense that gets in their eyes.

Maybe his chanting creates visions that make him harder to hit.


For Fist Fighting I'm gonna use the rules listed here:
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=5518
Super Saiyan Musashi wrote:I could see an Eastern Monk as having 2 attack dice with no weapons (advantageous in situations where heroes are captured and need to find their gear), and expandable to 3-4 either with mock "Level ups" or with Monk specific weapons like claws and knucks.


I especially want to explore "Like the Storm" where the enemy is stunned. Maybe an enemy losses an Attack or Defense Die for the next round if he rolls more WhiteShields than Black when defending but only one time per enemy? Idk, but it would be cool for the Monk to widdle an enemy down in movement or Attack/Def Dice.
Malcadon wrote:]


Ill stop here & look over the rest. Thank you all! I will be compiling all of this and put my Monk up.
Last edited by Josh on Monday January 18th, 2021 3:25pm, edited 15 times in total.
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Re: Monk player problem

Postby cynthialee » Wednesday December 2nd, 2020 8:45pm

I am not understanding why the Monk should be banned any weapons or armor

have you seen the shear amount of weapons and armor to come out of east asia? Those dudes did weapons in a major way
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If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
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Re: Monk player problem

Postby Josh » Wednesday December 2nd, 2020 9:26pm

I'm thinking his weapons can do Some very unique things such as:

2 hollow metal Tonfas. $275. Two separate Attacks at 2Att each. Adjacent only.

3 section nunchuck staff. $350.
2Att. One square Diagonal plus two square reach.
If two whiteShields are rolled, the enemies weapon is partially snared causing enemy to lose one DefDie next round to any hero attacking him.

Bolo. $50.
1Att. Ensnares enemies legs for one round. Enemy Attacks & Defends normally but can't move.

Poison shuriken. $100
1Att. Enemy looses 1AttDie next turn due to disorientation. Is not cumulative.

Just some ideas, haven't really thought them out.
Last edited by Josh on Wednesday December 2nd, 2020 11:35pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Monk player problem

Postby Kurgan » Wednesday December 2nd, 2020 9:54pm

I know, maybe his martial skills (2 dice unarmed attack for example, or extra strong Staff/dagger-fu) require them to be "recharged" after a certain number of uses? Like with the Ogre Horde tokens. Perhaps he can use an action to pray or meditate to "recharge" this ability? Maybe he can "level up" to make recharges required less frequently (or they recharge more efficiently).


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Re: Monk player problem

Postby Nyst » Tuesday October 19th, 2021 10:42am

After reading this thread, I had inspiration to draft up this monk character based on the suggestions here.

Warrior Monk

Atk: 2
Def: 2
BP: 6
MP: 4
Movement: 2 red dice

Restrictions: Wizard restricted armory.

Donations:
The Warrior Monk does not save gold. After every quest the monk donates all gold to those in need (loses all gold gained). The donations are still recorded under gold, as a running total.

Donation Levels:
Once the hero donates to the level, they unlock that gift or ability.
500 - Temple Dog bracers. +1 Def
800 - Iron Knuckles, 3 AD
1200 - Weapon mastery. +1 AD to weapons. Does not apply to thrown weapons.
2000 - Enlightenment. +1 die to focus rolls.

Abilities:
1. Counter Attack - On defense, for every black shield the attacker rolls, the hero will counter attack with an equal amount of dice, no defense. The hero's attack occurs after defending the initial attack.
2. Agility - The hero succeeds on trap jump attempts when rolling anything but a black shield.
3. Focus - In between quests, roll dice equal to your mind points. If you roll 2 white shields, the hero gets +2 added to their movement rolls in the next quest. If you roll 3 or more white shields, the hero gets +1 BP in the next quest. The maximum BP the hero can be healed to remains at 6.


The max this hero would be is Atk:4/Def:4, if they get a cloak for armor. With the counter attack ability (thank you, cynthialee), they would have extra damage dealing potential. This monk would not value gold coins. The donation system reflects that. To get items, other characters would have to gift the monk potions/gear or the monk finds them while adventuring. The donations effectively work as an experience system with rewards.

This is simple and the abilities aren't overpowering but provide a nice boost.
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Re: Monk player problem

Postby Kurgan » Tuesday October 19th, 2021 11:30am

Neat ideas!
I also like the idea that he has to donate his treasure but unlocks enhanced abilities with it, so it's not just another way of saying he's buying equipment. He certainly needs some way of progressing like the other Heroes, rather than having all his abilities at the start with nowhere to go (more boring over time).

Other things a Friar Tuck type Monk could do would involve some kind of healing for others (perhaps rechargeable as well, though be careful of making it overpowered), and possibly (just thought of this) the ability to remove sprung traps (something you could do in the EU but not in NA). He's out to help others so that would fit into his mission. I think he should have the element of surprise, because of his unassuming and pious demeanor he isn't seen as much of a threat (can use robe to hide his weapon, etc).


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