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Dwarf Mage

PostPosted: June 7th, 2013, 1:25 pm
by Ethica
I did a quick search, but didn't find discussion of this so far-

If one were to have a Dwarf-Wizard hero character using only simple rules (no new spells) would it be fair to have him like this?-

Attack - 1
Defend - 2
Mind - 5
Body - 6

Gets 2 sets of spells and is subject to the same restrictions on weapons and armour that the Wizard is. Not sure about trap disarming.

Is that a balanced character compared with the others?

Re: Dwarf Mage

PostPosted: June 7th, 2013, 1:47 pm
by knightkrawler
After my Balancing-of-New-Heroes-System posted elsewhere, for example here: http://oldscratch.smackwell.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1340777356
your Dwarf is balanced, because of the BP+MP=10-rule being broken by your adding 1 point.
The trap disarming thing is a class skill and has nothing to do with the race, I think. So it makes no sense to give it to a Dwarf Wizard.
But you could if you want to, and he would easily be balanced out again, by removing 1 BP (4 is enough, even for a Dwarf).

But I like your version as you presented it, without the removing traps skill.
That's my verdict.

Re: Dwarf Mage

PostPosted: June 7th, 2013, 2:48 pm
by Daedalus
To answer your question, I also feel the Dwarf-Wizard is balanced.

Now for some unsolicited opinions:

  • I think a new name is in order, such as Gnome. I imagine I lost a few of us there.
  • I think a Dwarf-Wizard should be required to choose at least one of his spell groups from Earth or Fire spells. (Earth or Water for a Gnome.) definitely not WoM spells. He should choose after a Wizard, but before an Elf.
  • Sharing the four Elemental spells restricts the options for spellcasting Heroes--you can't have both a Wizard and Dwarf-Wizard in the same group without WoM spells. An alternative using only the Elemental spells is to have the Dwarf-Wizard just choose one spell group, doubling up by "tapping" a spell for the first casting, and turning it in after the second casting. (If the Elf was played as well with only the Elemental spells, the Wizard would have to do the same with one of his two spell groups.)
  • If you wanted, you could allow a Dwarf-Wizard to disarm traps, but only on a skull result. It's more detail to trouble over on a card, however. This makes him an all-rounder in everything but combat, if that is what you are after. Compare the Dwarf-Wizard and the Elf: The Dwarf-Wizard is middle-plus in magic, weak-plus in combat-NA/middle in combat-EU, and middle in disarming traps. The Elf is weak-plus in magic, middle-plus in combat, and weak (no kit)/weak-plus (kit) in trap disarming. Seems like the Wizard-Dwarf would be a little better using EU Wizard restrictions for combat equipment. I'd drop the disarm ability or a Body point.
  • Also, you could emphasize the disarm ability and allow the purchase of a tool kit to bump the disarm result from a skull to anything but a black shield (middle-plus disarm). A drop to 5 Body would balance this out (weak-plus combat).

Re: Dwarf Mage

PostPosted: June 7th, 2013, 4:56 pm
by tasoe
Ethica wrote:I did a quick search, but didn't find discussion of this so far-

If one were to have a Dwarf-Wizard hero character using only simple rules (no new spells) would it be fair to have him like this?-

Attack - 1
Defend - 2
Mind - 5
Body - 6

Gets 2 sets of spells and is subject to the same restrictions on weapons and armour that the Wizard is. Not sure about trap disarming.

Is that a balanced character compared with the others?


I think a body-mind 5-5 is in order for this character. And 2-2 combat dice but lose the trap disarm. 2 sets of spells seem appropriate.

Allow me to give my opinion on dwarf-mages. I don't think they blend well with the feel of the game or even the fanstasy setting at all. I've never heard of a dwarf who can throw fireballs.
What I would include in a game of my own is a Runesmith. Dwarf who can use runes to help out in combat. Example: a rune that can be put in a sword and that sword gets +1 attack vs undead. Lasts for a number of rounds or maybe even the whole quest. A dwarf hero with 6-4 body-mind and 2-2 combat dice with trap disarm and 2-3 runes similar to the one I mentioned wouldn't be unbalanced in my opinion. In fact, I'm working on a character like that in my own games only to have him never picked out to see if he's balanced.

Re: Dwarf Mage

PostPosted: June 8th, 2013, 3:41 am
by mikemacdee
tasoe wrote:I don't think they blend well with the feel of the game or even the fanstasy setting at all. I've never heard of a dwarf who can throw fireballs.

What if he's limited to the Earth and Air spell groups?

After a second look he seems pretty balanced to me also. In my Dwarf Clan hierarchy he'd be a Volur (has a better ring to it than "Dwarf-Wizard"), which is sort of a spellcaster but mostly a seer that uses runes to predict the future and tell fortunes and such. So I kinda support magic-using Dwarves if their abilities are limited and/or based around the typical Dwarf environment: subterranean mountain colonies. Fireball wouldn't be terribly useful there, but Pass Through Rock sure as hell would.

Re: Dwarf Mage

PostPosted: June 8th, 2013, 5:02 am
by knightkrawler
There's the German RPG Das Schwarze Auge (engl. The Dark Eye) where there are Dwarf druids (in a nutshell, Dwarfs with an intuitive Earth magic, similar to the Elves intuitive magic). This playable character is called "Geode" which is a portmanteau made from geo- (greek, earth) and Druide (German, druid).

Maybe something like that would make sense for the Character name - geode directly loaned from German and pronounced English (with a mute -e) doesn't sound that bad.
Also the Dark Eye backdrop fits the bill of the HQ character being limited to Earth Spells and one other set. Fire would also fit, because of the Dwarves' affiliation to forging and their animosity towards dragons.

Re: Dwarf Mage

PostPosted: June 8th, 2013, 6:44 am
by Sjeng
knightkrawler wrote:This playable character is called "Geode" which is a portmanteau made from geo- (greek, earth) and Druide (German, druid).

Did you know a geode is also this:

Image

Re: Dwarf Mage

PostPosted: June 8th, 2013, 7:05 am
by tasoe
mikemacdee wrote:What if he's limited to the Earth and Air spell groups?

I guess that's fine. I haven't really checked the background of dwarven culture to know what I'm talking about, it's just my intuition.
I only read on wikipedia about runesmiths so that was it.
I get you point about earth magic, but still I'm not keen on making a dwarf use spells of any kind. I just can't picture it in my head, a stinking hairy dwarf casting heal body.
I'm not one about imagination anyway so don't take my words too seriously!

Re: Dwarf Mage

PostPosted: June 8th, 2013, 10:51 am
by knightkrawler
Sjeng wrote:
knightkrawler wrote:This playable character is called "Geode" which is a portmanteau made from geo- (greek, earth) and Druide (German, druid).

Did you know a geode is also this:

Image


I did, yes. I found out when I tried to wiki 'Geode' in order to find out real life historic backdrops for the Dwarfen class/profession when I was trying to make such a hero myself.
That's when I found out that the Dark Eye people must have made that portmanteau. Top notch inductive detective work for you right there.

Re: Dwarf Mage

PostPosted: June 8th, 2013, 10:56 am
by Sjeng
I would have gone for Geoide then instead of Geode, simply because geode already is a word.