buffing the wizard

[cynthialee]

I like it. (I really need to get on this printing mission....I need more of the spells)

I haven't played in awhile, but when I did play regularly one of the ways I helped out the mage was to allow him to loot uncast chaos spells 'scrolls' from the corpses of those evil spell casters who did not get a chance to cast all the spells in thier inventory before they died. Only the mage could understand chaos magic, the elf could not use them.

Had Another thought this morning...
The mage may create between adventures a potion of any type he is familiar with, so therefor the mage may start every quest with one free potion.
If advancement rules are in play, then allow the mage to create an extra potion for every 10 quests completed.

[cynthialee]

or...
If you have the elf spells, limit the elf to only those spells, and give the mage all four decks of elemental spells.

[drathe]

the american version had to create and add special mage only weapons and armour to try to address this

Actually the opposite is true. In the European edition, the Wizard can use the Cloak of Protection, which adds 1 to defence. The Wizard can also use bracers which also add 1 to defence. That's a total of 2 extra defence dice.

In the American version, the only addition to defence the Wizard has is the Wizard's Cloak (essentially the Cloak of Protection) which adds 1. The European edition is better for Wizard defence.

As for weapons, the European Staff has an attack of 2 combat dice. Also, not one of the Quest Treasures (Artifacts) list any sort of Wizard restrictions. Although I'm sure most play otherwise, there's nothing on the card preventing the Wizard from using the Orc's Bane, Spirit Blade, or Borin's Armour. I believe the first edition equipment cards also allowed the Wizard to use some of the other weapons too, but I no longer have a first edition set to confirm this. Maybe one of our European members who have the first edition can confirm this.

The Wizard's only attack upgrade in the American version is the Wizard's Staff, which allows an attack of 2 combat dice (the same as the European's regular Staff).
/history lesson

I do agree that that magic system in HeroQuest needs more work. Sure, once the Wizards expansion is reached there's new spells to choose from (don't forget, they aren't Wizard only spells, the Elf can also choose one of these sets instead of the Elemental Spells), but there's no addition. I've never been able to understand how the Wizard, or Elf for that matter, can know how to cast powerful spells from an element (or otherwise) in one Quest, but be unable to do so in the next because they had to choose a different set of spells. Do they forget? Is it some sort of knowledge limit? When they learn a new spell, there's not enough room and it pushes an old spell out of their heads?

I can understand limiting the number of each spell per Quest, as it may be a mental strain on them to keep up the same spell over and over.

Here's how my current group has been playing:
The Elf picks one group from the Elemental Spells. The Wizard gets two copies of each spell from all four Elements. Overpowered you say? Only during the first few quests (it is nice to have in the extremely difficult Trial Quest when the other Heroes have no special equipment). It balances out over time as the other Heroes begin purchasing new weapons and armour.

My players enjoy the rule tweak for the Wizard. Wizard players no longer hide out in a corner, saving their most powerful spells for an end boss that may not exist. They assist during smaller fights by casting fire spells and support other Heroes with Rock Skin, Courage and Healing. With more healing available, the Heroes search for treasure even when the risks are poor. It's been an overall improvement to our games and definitely helps everyone in the difficult Quest Packs later on. (I'm looking at you OH, WM/Z, MM, FH and DC with US rules!)

This is an enjoyable discussion, keep sharing ideas. Everyone can pick and choose the ones they want (like in the Tome modular-rule book project).

[cynthialee]

I was looking over some of the usser made spell schools on this site. Pretty cool stuff.
So I was thinking...
Maybe instead of giving the wizzard a few spells from each element, give the mage only one school but every spell on the list...

[Ethica]

In europe rules the wizard could if very lucky get Attack-3 Defend-6, which is awesome. They always have a vulnerability in that they can only take 3 bp damage in one attack, where the barbarian could take 7.

In my rules, the wizard gains access to more powerful spells by defeating a greater wizard who possesses them. There's still a ceiling, but there is with all the characters. I see the wizard as a character that is weak to begin with but becomes more powerful than the others deeper into the game.

[Tott]

the american version had to create and add special mage only weapons and armour to try to address this

Actually the opposite is true. In the European edition, the Wizard can use the Cloak of Protection, which adds 1 to defence. The Wizard can also use bracers which also add 1 to defence. That's a total of 2 extra defence dice.

As for weapons, the European Staff has an attack of 2 combat dice. Also, not one of the Quest Treasures (Artifacts) list any sort of Wizard restrictions. I believe the first edition equipment cards also allowed the Wizard to use some of the other weapons too, but I no longer have a first edition set to confirm this. Maybe one of our European members who have the first edition can confirm this.

/history lesson

living in london, im sure i had the european edition , im also certain i got it the very first christmas it was out so id assume it was probably the first edition as well. there was definetly no cloak of protection and no bracers either. im also pretty sure that some of the special items like borins armour and the spirit blade had the 'canot be used by the wizard' rule as well. im also certain that the only piece of normal equiptment he could equip was the staff too. i will dig out my set and find the cards to check.

however, if some editions have this rule then consider this, you have to load up the wizard with the special artifacts to get him to roughly the same level as the other characters and even then - hes not really a wizard anymore, hes not casting spells he's swinging swords in melee combat. just play with two elves....

[cynthialee]

A two elf game sounds like fun. Be cool if I had the elf girl....

[drathe]

the american version had to create and add special mage only weapons and armour to try to address this

Actually the opposite is true. In the European edition, the Wizard can use the Cloak of Protection, which adds 1 to defence. The Wizard can also use bracers which also add 1 to defence. That's a total of 2 extra defence dice.

As for weapons, the European Staff has an attack of 2 combat dice. Also, not one of the Quest Treasures (Artifacts) list any sort of Wizard restrictions. I believe the first edition equipment cards also allowed the Wizard to use some of the other weapons too, but I no longer have a first edition set to confirm this. Maybe one of our European members who have the first edition can confirm this.

/history lesson

living in london, im sure i had the european edition , im also certain i got it the very first christmas it was out so id assume it was probably the first edition as well. there was definetly no cloak of protection and no bracers either. im also pretty sure that some of the special items like borins armour and the spirit blade had the 'canot be used by the wizard' rule as well. im also certain that the only piece of normal equiptment he could equip was the staff too. i will dig out my set and find the cards to check.

however, if some editions have this rule then consider this, you have to load up the wizard with the special artifacts to get him to roughly the same level as the other characters and even then - hes not really a wizard anymore, hes not casting spells he's swinging swords in melee combat. just play with two elves....

The equipment cards are different between the first and second edition games. They both have a total of 14 cards, but the first edition set has doubles of the Helmet and Shield. The Cloak of Protection and Bracers were added to the second edition replacing the duplicates. The Quest Treasures in the second edition definitely do not have Wizard restrictions on them. As can be seen here: http://www.yeoldeinn.com/eu-system.php#cards

If you dig out your set, let us know about any restrictions on the Quest Treasures and other Equipment cards. If you compare your first edition cards to the ones in the link above, you'll also notice other changes made to some spell cards. Such as Courage and Rock Skin. And rewording of many treasure cards.

[Goblin-King]

A two elf game sounds like fun.

It certainly sounds some three letter word...

Anyway... The Danish version allows the wizard to use the Artifacts and he also gets the cloak and bracers.
But strangely enough I've recently acquired an English version - The Gold! treasure cards had instructions to specifically be shuffled back into the deck while the hazards had not!?
That's crazy man!

[Tott]

The equipment cards are different between the first and second edition games. They both have a total of 14 cards, but the first edition set has doubles of the Helmet and Shield. The Cloak of Protection and Bracers were added to the second edition replacing the duplicates. The Quest Treasures in the second edition definitely do not have Wizard restrictions on them. As can be seen here: http://www.yeoldeinn.com/eu-system.php#cards

If you dig out your set, let us know about any restrictions on the Quest Treasures and other Equipment cards. If you compare your first edition cards to the ones in the link above, you'll also notice other changes made to some spell cards. Such as Courage and Rock Skin. And rewording of many treasure cards.

aha! i DEFINETLY had two helmets and two shields! i also think the courage and rock skin have the original wording as the ones ive seen here are noticably different to the frankly stupid courage spell we had.
im going home to visit my parents this weekend, if i venture up into the loft, i may, just may be able to find my copy of heroquest (plus rotwl, KK, wom & Atoh) which i seem to remember putting in a fairly protective plastic box. hopefully i wont need pass through rock though...